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Post Info TOPIC: Stuck in low range 4X4 ! Ford Truck Powerstroke F250 Super Duty.


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Stuck in low range 4X4 ! Ford Truck Powerstroke F250 Super Duty.


Well as fate would have it, after all this going on, my damn truck got stuck in 4 wheel low yesterday and would not come out.

Yes just minutes after ordering some Chineese take out I realized that going over 25 MPH was just not going to happen without screwing up the drivetrain.

Had to run home and grab the Benz and as a result my chicken was not as warm as usual. Oh well, I guess it could have been worse. I mean imagine if I used this truck for a commercial purpose, or was on the job site. Actually at that moment I was starving so a few back roads and I was home. No big deal, more details to follow.


-- Edited by SELLC at 21:13, 2009-03-03

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RE: Stuck in low range!


Is that cause a diesel benz goes 0-60 in about two and a half fuckin' years?

LMAO :D

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What did you have it in low range for, anyway?

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I myself drive a V8 5.6 Liter OHC 560 Mercedes (Gasoline). I know nothing about going slow in a Mercedes.

Sometimes I think that unless I lift the front tires of a W126 Benz, it wont get done.

We got a few roads around here that are solid ice, and I wanted to cross a busy intersection rather quickly, so I turned on the 4X4. I havent even looked at it since, been quite busy around here. I got three LT1 overhauls I have been nursing :) too bad most of them are going out of state and one out of the country.

I cant pull the truck in due to the condensation and water. $hit wreaks havoc on freshly cut steel. But I think as soon as this batch is out, Ill sneak her in for some serious loving.



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How many parts is this gonna take to "FIX" ???

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"Stuck???" in low range?

Too bad we can't simply recreate the lunacy we traversed getting "stuck in" low range and find our way out of it....

If you can find someone to read the owners manual to you, have them flip to about page 133. It will describe that you aren't quite "stuck" in low range....



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Its more like page 134.

Taken from the owners manual of a 2003 F250/350/450/550

Page #134

Switching from 4X4 LOW (4WD Low) to 4X4 HIGH (4WD High)or 2WD (2WD High)

1. Bring vehicle to a complete stop
2 Depress the brake
3. Place the gearshift in N (Neutral) (Automatic transmission) or depress the clutch (manual transmission)
4. Move the 4WD control to the 4X4 HIGH (4WD High) or 2WD (2WD High) position.
5. Hold the shift conditions until the LOW RANGE indicator light shuts off.
6. If the LOW RANGE indicator light does not shut off within 15 seconds, drive the vehicle above 5MPH (8 km/h), then repeat steps 1 through 5 before reporting any concerns to your dealer.

See all this time you and I have been on the WRONG PAGE pogo. Anyway, that would be once more your internet crystal ball has been wrong.

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<GASP> Oh, the horror... how could I have made such an aggrievous error - Sitting here "reading" an owners manual I don't have - and I came up a page out?

Actually, the copy I was perusing began the paragraph on page 133.... Kind of niggling when one considers that you apparently had a hard time being bothered in learning about a system that is a feature on the truck you drive...

Perhaps you should have availed yourself of the owners manual before you announced that your truck was "broken"....

Sidebar.... speaking of smegma or what-ever his name is, it is interesting that your main abuser has gone into hibernation.....

Look at the traffic this shithole is getting lately.....

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There you go assuming things again Pogo.

For your information I was well aware of how the Low Range come on and went off. I been using it for some time now.

As I have tried many times, as always, and exactly per the manual, it still does not disengage. So Pogo.. Your magic crystal ball is once more been proven wrong.

I am starting to thing Pogo's crystal ball looks more like one of these-



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At least you're making headway.... If what you say is true, you have a better grasp of ESOF than you do of HEUI injectors....

Looking at the pics of how you treat this truck, it is no little wonder that there's much left of the 4WD system.

Given your past performance, what can anyone believe?

So.. what have you found as a problem with your 4WD? Any codes?

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I am researching the system right now. Looks to be a lot like all the other Ford 4X4 systems.

The system seems to have several inputs such as, The brake pedal switch, The Gearshift position sensor,  and of course the 4X4 switch, sensors, solinoids and the relay.

I have not scanned it. It appears when disconecting the module it will shut off the lights, yet still be locked in 4X4. For people wondering where the 4X4 Module/Computer is on an 2003 F250, its just behind the glove box on the upper right side.

I am leaning twards what Pogo is now saying. That the truck has taken a bloody pounding and the computer system is most likley just fine. Considering this truck has sat in a body of water that covered the tires, its entirely possible it has become locked at the hubs as well. There is also the concern that the manual locks that are made from plastic have cracked/broken. Cheap ass Ford using plastic for something like that is somewhat bothering, but hey, things like that will ensure parts sales, keeping Ford from needing bail-out money. I am going to save the work I do with regards to the vacuum controled front hubs for a seperate thread, however we knew this truck needed front end work. All trucks will require suspension work/up-keep if you use them.

I will check for power at the motor today. Seems these modules must be programed for our trucks. Also seems to be an encoder on board the 4X4 computer. I am thinking about removing the 4X4 acuator motor on the transfer case, in effort to test and manually pull it out of 4X4. I got an engine that HAS to go out to our UPS terminal YESTERDAY, and this truck is the way.

Ill report back later as its Friday, and that means a busy day. I will also edit my post above to include page 133 of how to engage the 4X4 system for other folks whom may need help.


-- Edited by SELLC at 10:20, 2009-02-27

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Gawd..... there may be hope for you yet... Word of advice.... you will be much further ahead to read section 308-07A of the workshop manual - Diagnosis And Testing - Four Wheel Drive (4WD) Systems Electronic Shift    - Principles Of Operation.

You will study the system without a WSM and come to conclusions.... these conclusions will be wrong (I am not being derogatory, here) and the system will operate in such a way that your assumptions will lead you astray.

Word to the wise.... I work on SuperDuty trucks each and every day... even without the diesel engine option, these trucks can have complex subsystems. I would not consider working on one of these trucks without factory manuals - and I would consider that Pogo, the living, breathing ass that he is, has more than a passing familiarity with the SuperDuty Ford...

Back in the late sixties, when I first applied my talents to this trade, the knowledge quotient was low.... almost everythijng we needed to know could be committed to memory.... Today, without authoratative documentation - all you are going to do is fuck somebody... you, your customer or both....

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Well I am out of 4X4 Low.

With the truck stuck in the driveway I pulled off the motor to see if it was actuating. It was not. So then I bench tested the 4X4 motor (transfer case) and found that it was working with great percision. I think Ford has done a good job with the new design.

Anyway it took me less time to pull the motor and manually switch it out of 4X4 than it did testing it to ensure it wasnt opperator error.

To do this you will need a 10mm socket and ratchet with extensions. Drop the transfer case shield that is held in by 4 10mm bolts.

Push back the red tab on the sensor harness that attaches to the 4X4 motor, and remove the power harness that runs to the motor itself. The motor is held on with 3 10mm bolts. Be careful with them as Fords used blue locktight on the bolts.

After you remove the motor you will see how it opperates. I used an adjustable wrench to manualy turn the engagement shaft that protrudes from the transfer case. I think I turned it clockwise, but once its out of 4X4 you will notice the front drive shaft will have a fair amount of side to side. You can plug the motor in and drive it to be shure before you re-install.

To re-install the motor you must adjust the position of the motor socket, that slides over that protruding part you just manualy disengaged. Do this by using battery power direct to the motor, or just use a 1/2 ratchet to manually manuver it in possition. If the motor socket is not in the right possition, it will not go on.

Here are some photos. I was able to get back to work and now its time to see what went wrong.













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RE: Stuck in low range 4X4 ! Ford Truck Powerstroke F250 Super Duty.


Have you ever tried disconnecting the vacuum line to your steering knuckle and sticking a vacuum gauge in it, then commanding 4x4 and 2x4 operation and watch the gauge? 

You should try it Rex, and then explain to us why it does what it does.



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I planned on it, however tonight I am real sleepy. Been one of them 24 hour days.

I cant even barely see right now, and I still have several more hours to go.

Really with my schedual, I wont even be able to touch this truck for several weeks. Ill be lucky to even have time to drive it unless something really large needs to be moved.

Sometimes when you been up too long it almost seems like your slap happy.

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SELLC wrote:

I planned on it, however tonight I am real sleepy. Been one of them 24 hour days.

I cant even barely see right now, and I still have several more hours to go.

Really with my schedual, I wont even be able to touch this truck for several weeks. Ill be lucky to even have time to drive it unless something really large needs to be moved.

Sometimes when you been up too long it almost seems like your slap happy.




 Some of us spend our time "doing stuff"....

Some of us spend our time making axcuses for stuff we haven't done...

I see something you never planned on doing until someone indicated that there is a chance that it might be interesting.... thought provoking, even....

In a previous post, you indicated that you had "the best <manuals> in the world" or something along that line....

If you truly had the best manuals, you would simply refer to the workshop manual... section 308-07A... and scroll down to Principles of Operation - Electronic Shift on the Fly (ESOF) System. Hoe - Lee PHUQUE!!!! After a very few paragraphs, I are a expert - and I'm not left wondering if what my vacuum gauge is doing is right... or if it's wrong....

You talk down to me because you think I am a "book" mechanic... you keep me around because you think you can embarass me....

In our shop... and in PowerStrokers shop - at least ONE person had to read the book in order to explain the operation of the system to everyone else. (Translation - I may be book smart... but that ain't all I need... and, at my age, I'm reasonably sure that I am NOT just another pretty face. So... I guess I can fix stuff too). If you did hook up the vacuum gauge, without reading the book, you will be left with thinking "Well, that ain't right" when, in fact, it IS.....

What could oil pressure have to do with injectors.... indeed....

You may consider me "easy prey"... you may consider me a thorn in your side... I really don't fucking care what you think of me.... I do care what your customers think of you... because the rest of us might be tarred and feathered with your mistakes. You got a website.... If you want to act big.... be big.



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PogoPossum wrote:
You talk down to me because you think I am a "book" mechanic... you keep me around because you think you can embarass me....

You may consider me "easy prey"... you may consider me a thorn in your side... I really don't fucking care what you think of me.... I do care what your customers think of you... because the rest of us might be tarred and feathered with your mistakes. You got a website.... If you want to act big.... be big.

I keep you around? Thats pretty funny.

Considering you come her of your own free will, take time to explain things out to the best of your ability, and refrain from foul play like our friend Larry, I guess one could say you keep yourself around.

On many "Big" web forums the Administrator usually does not partake in conversations. This is because on MANY popular web forums the Administration is an advertisement company.

Yes I am a mechanic, unlike many other forum owners. Yes I have a good understanding of automobiles and computers. I consider Computers to be my fall back to Automotive. Now days computers go hand in hand with about everything, so it inter-twines. I never proclaimed to be the best, just umong the many whom have a passion for the trade.

Lets face it... The Powerstroke truck is a payload truck, for the people who dont want to look bad doing it. They require a LOT of maintaniance due to the systems involved. Refinement is key as the average joe makes his way into the big truck segment. Using terms such as Maintanice Free is not a good idea when your customers are soccer moms and non-automotive folk.

Design also goes hand in hand with refinement, however I still think having to pull the cab to get easy access to some componets is poor design. Make less dash! I am sure that for as much money as Fords has had to spend paying techs to pull the cabs for simple repairs, they too would say, "Thats bullshit". However in the name of engineered obsoletion, the bean counters say "Cheap Insurance".

Meanwhile we move on, ever forward.

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Let's straighten out a few things.... YOU are NOT a mechanic. You have a toolbox and what appears to be a bay in a strip mall... When it comes to Ford PSDs, you do not appear to be much of a diagnostician.... You feel that DIYers are the experts you need to consult...

I am SURPRISED that I am still here.... I call you every name in the book... my only claim to fame is in regards to some of te little shit I let you in on... like licence plate gaskets aren't as important as bed plate "gaskets".. like it doesn't matter about the piezo stack in a 6.0 because the 6.0 doesn't have a piezo stack.... like Ford Girl is a valued voice here and not some uppity fucking bitch that should be at home cooking your fucking macaroni and mayo....

Time and time again, you miss what folks are telling you... Time and time again you miss what your life experiences are telling you.... The reputation of the powerstoke mafia and it's members would be much better served if you were to devote your life to IT.

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I am more a mechanic than you will ever be Pogo. While I may not squat in Fords dealership like you, I am able to make my repairs without having to hide behind the blue oval.

The fact that all you Ford Techs come in here claiming to be in the PS Mob speaks volumes about how Fords tries to trap its customers. Its just a good thing there are people like me to help you guys off that high horse.

No, I dont own a Stealership. And what I got is mine. Thats more than I can say for you. Save all your TEAM speaches for your guys out back working for peanuts. You may be able to fool them, but it wont work here.



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SELLC wrote:

 

I am more a mechanic than you will ever be Pogo.







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SELLC wrote:

I am more a mechanic than you will ever be Pogo. While I may not squat in Fords dealership like you, I am able to make my repairs without having to hide behind the blue oval.

The fact that all you Ford Techs come in here claiming to be in the PS Mob speaks volumes about how Fords tries to trap its customers. Its just a good thing there are people like me to help you guys off that high horse.

No, I dont own a Stealership. And what I got is mine. Thats more than I can say for you. Save all your TEAM speaches for your guys out back working for peanuts. You may be able to fool them, but it wont work here.



How sadly we can be mistaken on so many counts...

Of course, you may think that using service publications is a sign of weakness... But, if using these service publications, factory training courses and other resources is "hiding behind the blue oval", then I am all for it. Specializing is something that offers benefits to our customers.... But only if we act as professionals... Many dealership techs are the same as you - they already know everything there is to know and they can bang out $400 repairs in as little as six months and for as little as $12000. Impressive track record....

Working for peanuts.... I know several techs that are paid less than they are actually worth. Most of them live and work in the US... That fine country pays truck drivers more than they pay techs - ain't that a kick? Even better, the rank and file auto mechanics are too busy fucking each other over to even consider acting in a professional manner...

Fortunately, there are those that perservere, earn decent livings and have satisfied customers... Satisfied customers that still own their trucks, one might add...

Now.... I can assure you that any licenced journeyman tech in Canada is not working for peanuts... While we still see some good techs that should be paid more, like the US, there are some bad techs that are overpaid even in terms of peanuts....

Consider this - 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class....

Sorry for the digression.... Licenced techs in Canada, for the most part, do reasonably well.. some make exemplary wages - even as high as 40% of the door rate. As a member of lower management, I do not share that grace... I earn below $40/hour... I imagine that this would be close to your door rate?

Safe in my little dealership world, I never have to mistreat a customer with my lack of knowledge.... safe in my little dealership world, I am familiar with those products and concerns that I work on....

You just don't see it, do you? As a member of the dog eat dog jungle, it is a battle just to pay the bills... and by the fuck, those sorry assed people that visit you are going to pay for the privilege.... And here some up[pity dealership asshole comes along and tells you that knowing about what you do makes life easier. Damn... there is a guy that doesn't understand how "real men" do it....

Whoa!!!!! Somebody said Bareback Mountain was about "real men", didn't they?

 



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PogoPossum wrote:
How sadly we can be mistaken on so many counts...

Of course, you may think that using service publications is a sign of weakness... But, if using these service publications, factory training courses and other resources is "hiding behind the blue oval", then I am all for it. Specializing is something that offers benefits to our customers.... But only if we act as professionals... Many dealership techs are the same as you - they already know everything there is to know and they can bang out $400 repairs in as little as six months and for as little as $12000. Impressive track record....

I NEVER once said using service publications was a bad idea, nor did I ever claim they were a sign of weakness. What I did say is that a "Lot" of dealer techs will get lazy with regards to them, and should a problem arrise that is not in the service publications they wont know what the hell to do, since they have been spoon fed for so long. With regards to your $400 repair statement, well thats just plain silly.

Working for peanuts.... I know several techs that are paid less than they are actually worth. Most of them live and work in the US... That fine country pays truck drivers more than they pay techs - ain't that a kick? Even better, the rank and file auto mechanics are too busy fucking each other over to even consider acting in a professional manner...

What is a rank and file auto mechanic? Is that a Canadian term? I think good mechanics anywhere in the world are usually independent, and dont work at the dealers, so that kinda blows your theory out of the water. Thats not to say there are not good techs who work at the dealer, just that many dealership techs are only strong in a limited amount of vehicles. For example I doubt you could tell us much about a Lincoln Mark IIIV even though its made by a division of Ford.

Fortunately, there are those that perservere, earn decent livings and have satisfied customers... Satisfied customers that still own their trucks, one might add...

Well thats good to know, 99.9% of all my customers still own their vehicles and I bet thats a whole lot better than your percentages given the amount you dealer guys fuck people on repairs. I am sure you dont want to even think about how many people could not make their car payments because you guys soaked them in the service department. I am positive you wont admit it, but I know you are aware of it.

Now.... I can assure you that any licenced journeyman tech in Canada is not working for peanuts... While we still see some good techs that should be paid more, like the US, there are some bad techs that are overpaid even in terms of peanuts....

Tell us just what YOU see, because to me your so drunk with power you cant even see straight. Clearly you have FOMOCO blinders on as how the hell could you ever be in a possition to tell us what someone else makes that doesnt work at your facility.

Consider this - 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom half of their class....

Now you claim to be a medical expert? How would you know? And what does that have to do with the repair of vehicles?

Sorry for the digression.... Licenced techs in Canada, for the most part, do reasonably well.. some make exemplary wages - even as high as 40% of the door rate. As a member of lower management, I do not share that grace... I earn below $40/hour... I imagine that this would be close to your door rate?

Are you a branch manager Pogo? Because you sure remind me a lot of a monkey.

Safe in my little dealership world, I never have to mistreat a customer with my lack of knowledge.... safe in my little dealership world, I am familiar with those products and concerns that I work on....

You might mistreat people every day, who are you to be able to tell what another man might feel as mistreatment? A lot of customers wont even tell you if they are unsatisfied, they will simply quit going to your shop. I am willing to bet that you have performed work that was caused by faulty systems that just happen to escape the warranty knowing full damn well that the parts you have replaced were damn lucky to have made it past the warranty experation.

You just don't see it, do you? As a member of the dog eat dog jungle, it is a battle just to pay the bills... and by the fuck, those sorry assed people that visit you are going to pay for the privilege.... And here some up[pity dealership asshole comes along and tells you that knowing about what you do makes life easier. Damn... there is a guy that doesn't understand how "real men" do it....

I understand how "Real" men do it, however considering you are a mechanic and not the people whom designed these trucks its somewhat ignotant to claim you are better than I. You are only as good as someone else allows you to be. You will do what your told and you will like it, and for that you hate me. "Real Men" can hack it on their own. Yes it can be a battle to pay the bills however in your case, you dont pay your shops bills, so its hollow.

Whoa!!!!! Somebody said Bareback Mountain was about "real men", didn't they?

 

 I dont understand anything you just said... You will have to explain further.




 



-- Edited by SELLC on Friday 10th of April 2009 09:08:38 PM

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Recently I tore one of these "Encoder Motors" apart to see what made them tick. I was happy to find they use steel gears rather than plastic ones. I have also found that Ford and GM are using these encoder motors aka 4x4 engaugement motors.

Diffrence between them only appears to be the plug connector for the encoder motor sensor, which on some years is not sold seperatly without the entire encoder motor.

Here are some photos of the guts.

 



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I took one apart 5 or 6 years ago "just to see"... I already had an understanding of how the system is supposed to function... As you have found out, looking at the innards doesn't reveal any astounding clues to how the system operates.

To add to the confusion, the 2011 SuperDuty uses parts that appear identical, yet function differently from, anything up to 2010.

 

I think you will find that the next few years is not going to be a good time to try being an "all make/all system" repair outlet.... but then I'm just a spoon fed pansy that has access to way more documentation than my customers deserve...



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Yawn...

I don't usually see vehicles until they are about 6-7 years old, and rightfully so since the manufacture should be covering these vehicles under warranty. By the time they are out of warranty there is a great deal of information available for the independent techs.

Ford's switching up parts from year to year is no big supprise Pogo, they have been doing it for years.



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I miss ole' Pogo... Reading thru this thread many years later it's hard to believe he is no longer with us.

I even miss his rants... Just wish he could have passed on more of his knowledge on PowerStroke engines to live on here in the forums. 



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Yeah, Pogo was a rare breed. He is missed.

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