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Post Info TOPIC: 6.0 Ford Powerstroke Diesel BUYBACK - Ford Dealer Tech's were unable to repair


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6.0 Ford Powerstroke Diesel BUYBACK - Ford Dealer Tech's were unable to repair


According to Automotive News this afternoon,...

James and Penny Schrader have bought Fords faithfully for 30 years.

But persistent problems with the Power Stroke diesel engine in their 2004 F-250 pickup have unraveled three decades of brand loyalty. The Schraders, both 63, put a second mortgage on their home in Linden, Mich., to buy the $45,000 truck. Now they say they'll probably never buy another Ford.

"My husband wouldn't look at anything else," says Penny Schrader of their pickup. "But I don't care how good their product was in the past. They haven't treated me well as a loyal customer."

The Schraders aren't alone. Ford Motor Co. has been sued at least 58 times by consumers who bought 2003- and 2004-model Power Stroke trucks. The company also has fielded more than 12,000 consumer complaints, according to Ford's internal warranty data.

Not a minor flaw

This isn't a minor flaw that Ford can dispatch with basic service. The Power Stroke's warranty repair costs are battering Ford's bottom line. In a conference call with Wall Street analysts last March, a company executive acknowledged that Ford's diesel-powered super-duty pickups suffered from quality problems.

Ford has declined to estimate the cost of fixing those defective Power Stroke engines. But Ford has acknowledged that its warranty costs ballooned by $500 million through the first nine months of 2005, compared with the same period a year earlier.

Ford says it is honoring the engine's five-year, 100,000-mile warranty and doing everything it can to repair it. And newer versions of the engine in late 2004- and 2005-model pickups are more reliable.

But the problem will continue to fester. Ford already has sold more than 384,000 diesel trucks with potentially defective engines. And customers like the Schraders appear ready to abandon the brand.

Fixing its diesel problems - in terms of both engine performance and public confidence - is crucial for Ford because the stakes are enormous: Diesels account for about 25 percent of all F-series sales, and the 6.0-liter Power Stroke is a $5,000 option. The engine is offered on medium- and heavy-duty pickups, and had been offered on the discontinued Ford Excursion SUV.

From 225,000 to 250,000 diesel-powered F-series trucks are sold each year, at prices ranging from $30,000 to $50,000-plus.

If Ford can't put things right, the Power Stroke could cause a consumer backlash similar to that of Chrysler's problem-plagued Ultradrive transmission, which alienated minivan owners in the early 1990s.

"If this isn't fixed, and fixed right, and customer satisfaction put back on track, there will be fallout," says Art Spinella, president of CNW Marketing Research Inc. in Bandon, Ore. "Ford will lose buyers to Dodge and General Motors."

Trouble from the start

The 6.0-liter Power Stroke engine has been troublesome from the day it was launched in the fall of 2002. It replaced a somewhat unrefined 7.3-liter diesel.

The powertrain was built by a longtime Ford diesel supplier, International Truck and Engine Corp., of Melrose Park, Ill.

For this version of the engine, International Truck designed a unique high-pressure fuel-injection system.

Most automakers use only electronic controls to operate the fuel injectors in a common-rail system. But the Power Stroke's fuel injectors are operated by a high-pressure oil pump as well as electronics.

According to several of the 150-plus complaints posted on the Web site of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, some trucks never even made it home from the dealership before the fuel injectors or turbocharger failed.

The engine also has been plagued with leaky fuel injectors, oil leaks, broken turbochargers, wiring harness troubles, faulty sensors, defective exhaust gas recirculation valves and bad computers.

Since the engine debuted three years ago, Ford has issued at least 77 technical service bulletins. That is far above average, even for a new engine. These bulletins tell mechanics how to diagnose and fix various problems.

By comparison, there have been eight service bulletins for GM's Duramax diesel V-8 and none for the diesel engine in the Dodge Ram truck. Both engines debuted at about the same time as the Power Stroke.

After just a year on the market, International almost completely redesigned the Power Stroke's fuel system, replacing or redesigning nearly 500 parts. That helped reduce the number of problems, but did not cure the engine of all its ills. Ford has voluntarily recalled the engine at least twice to fix various problems.

The troubles have caused a rift in relations between Ford and International.

The engine can be repaired and made reliable, says International spokesman Bob Carso. Engineers from Ford and International have fixed the problems that plagued the early versions of the engine, he said.

But Carso says the engine is extremely complex and requires "outstanding diagnostic capabilities" to properly identify and repair the faulty parts.

Less help from Ford?

When the Power Stroke's troubles surfaced, Ford tried hard to keep customers happy. In the summer of 2003, Ford took the unusual step of buying back 500 trucks, mostly because of fuel system problems.

But two diesel technicians say Ford has changed the way it deals with the engine problems.

"When they first started out with the 6.0-liter, Ford had a team that was looking over every bit of it and just doing whatever it took to get them fixed," says Mark Ward, a master diesel technician at Landers McLarty Ford in Bentonville, Ark. "And then that just shut off like a light when Ford found out how much losses they were having."

Ward contends Ford is trying to shift more repair costs onto consumers.

"We used to replace turbochargers left and right if the fins had any damage to them," he says. "Now they (Ford) won't accept a turbo back with any fin damage. They are saying if there is any (turbocharger) fin damage whatsoever, it has to be from a dirty air filter. You have to inform the customer that Ford won't pay for that. It's $700, plus the labor."

The fin is the part of the turbocharger that is driven by engine's exhaust system.

"When the 6.0 is running properly, it has much better performance than the 7.3 did," says Charles Ledger, a Ford master technician from Oroville, Calif. "Unfortunately, the 6.0 is plagued with sensor problems." Ledger dispenses advice on his Dieselmann Web site (intellidog.com/dieselmann/home.html).

Ford: No change in policy

Cisco Codina, president of Ford's customer service division, says Ford is not blaming consumers or trying to shift repair costs onto buyers.

"We have not changed any policies whatsoever as it relates to defective material," Codina says. "We don't try to put this blame on the customers. We will spend whatever amount of time and money necessary to help customers who have problems."

Not all of the Power Stroke's defects can be blamed on Ford and International. Consumers may cause problems by installing unauthorized parts that boost engine output. Aftermarket computer chips and exhaust systems can upset the delicate tuning of the engine and cause head gaskets to blow out, Ward says.

Last year Ford and International officials told Automotive News that the Power Stroke's troubles were over. But that turns out to be only partially true.

The engines made today have a better record for reliability, according to NHTSA (see story, above). But those 2003- and early 2004-model engines keep breaking down. And consumers are angry at having to return to the dealership time after time for "reflashes" - new software to be installed in the vehicle's engine computer or other repairs.

Getting better

The number of complaints for 2005 Power Stroke engines has dropped sharply compared with earlier versions since last year's redesign of the engine's fuel system.

But there still are thousands on the road that are not reliable - and may never be. Design deficiencies in some faulty parts, Ward says, have not been addressed.

"If you look at the part number at the new one you are putting on, it's identical to the one you are taking out," notes Ward, the Arkansas technician. "If you start out with something cheap, what do you expect to happen?"

Ward details the engine's troubles and Ford's technical service bulletins on his Web site, flatratetech.com.

The Power Stroke's troubles are reminiscent of Chrysler Corp.'s A-604 automatic transmission - dubbed Ultradrive - that was introduced in Chrysler minivans in 1989. The first versions of the electronically shifted transmission had more problems than a calculus book. Technicians couldn't fix them, consumers were fuming, and Chrysler ended up replacing thousands of transmissions under warranty.

But Codina says Power Stroke has generated more complaints than rival diesels simply because more diesel Fords are on the road.

Says Codina: "We try to address each and every (problem) as we became aware of them. I am sure I am not aware of all of them. But if they (consumers) come to us, we try to do our very best. But today if you have one or two problems, people are not very happy with you."

One more chance

As for the Schraders, three days before they were to appear before a Lemon Law arbitration panel in November, Ford offered to buy back their old truck, waive mileage costs and put them in a 2006 model.

After consulting with a lawyer, the Schraders took the deal. The couple left Michigan a few days later for a road trip West. But they are still angry with Ford because they had to spend a year trying to get their truck fixed.

And they will not cut the new truck any slack. If the new truck so much as sputters, James Schrader says he will pull into the nearest Dodge dealership and trade it for a Ram.


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Ten months after it rolled out a new diesel engine for heavy-duty pickups, Ford Motor Company faces a chorus of quality complaints from owners who are among the company's most loyal customers.

The 6-liter Power Stroke diesel V-8, built by a unit of Navistar for Ford, commands nearly half the US market for diesel pickups.

But a raft of problems and repeat trips to dealerships for repairs has left some owners upset, threatening Ford's efforts to rebuild a reputation for quality vehicles.

"You don't know when the truck's going to go or not," said Matt Steffen, a F-250 Power Stroke owner in Florida.

"You can step on the gas one day and it will go really well, and the next day you step on the gas and it won't go at all".

Soon after the new engines went on sale last November in heavy-duty Ford pickups and the Ford Excursion sport utility vehicle, owners started reporting problems.

Among the costliest is diesel fuel seeping into the engine's oil supply in amounts large enough to ruin the engine.

Other complaints included engines that ran rough or stalled, lack of power at low speeds and harsh shifts. The complaints caused Ford to announce a recall of the Power Stroke in April to reprogram the engine's computer controls and replace a fuel injection sensor.

Even after the recall, several owners continued to suffer problems.

After promising fixes in April, Ford now contends the problems should be solved soon, and that only a small fraction of Power Stroke owners have suffered any trouble.

Ford has even taken the step of buying back an undisclosed number of trucks - a rare move that automakers usually don't take unless forced by state law - to sate angry customers.

"We're sorry that it happened," Roman Krygier, Ford's group vice president for manufacturing and quality, said.

"We think those problems are behind us".

Pickup trucks are the only part of the US market where diesel engines have been popular.

In the past couple of years, General Motors Corporation and DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler arm have beefed up their diesel pickups to better compete against Ford, and Nissan Motor Company is considering a diesel version of its Titan truck due out in December.

But Ford expected to maintain, if not build, on its market share when the 6-liter Power Stroke was launched.

The engine makes 320 horsepower and 560 pounds-feet of torque, giving some pickup models enough power to tow nearly seven tons, while meeting tougher federal emissions rules ahead of schedule.

This year, Ford expects to sell about 260 000 Power Stroke-equipped pickups, which start at $27 000 and can reach nearly $50 000 when loaded with options. Steve Lyons, head of the Ford division, said in July that Ford's incentives on its diesel trucks are well below competitors' "because our diesel engine is as well received in the marketplace as it is.

"We dominate this business, and it is because the product is extremely strong," he said.

Many Ford diesel customers swear by their trucks, which are usually used as work vehicles or for hauling camping trailers or boats.

While it's common for a small number of new-vehicle owners to complain, the volume and persistence of chatter about Power Stroke troubles on Internet chat rooms is unusual.

That may be a reflection of the owners.

According to J D Power & Associates research, heavy-duty truck customers place a higher priority on reliability than any other type of vehicle buyer.

Two Power Stroke owners who asked not to be named because they were still negotiating buyback deals with Ford, said their trucks had a string of problems that couldn't be fixed.

One owner in the western US had his truck in the shop for more than six weeks.

"I wound up being used as the guinea pig, or I felt like it, trying to get my truck fixed," he said.

"I just got to the end of my rope".

"This experience has changed my attitude toward Ford dramatically," said another owner whose F-250 was in for repairs six times before Ford bought it back.

"I have lost all confidence in Ford's engineering department and think they should have never released a product with known issues".

To address the lingering complaints, Ford has issued three updates for the software in the engine's computers since February.

It has two more updates planned in a few weeks to address rough idling and how the engines adjust to air- conditioning loads.

Ford spokesperson Glenn Ray said the company believes the updates will cure most of the "drivability" complaints from owners, and that the earlier recalls solved larger problems such as diesel fuel mixing with oil.

But he also said some had complained about engines that were later found to be running up to Ford's standards, and said some owners may simply be unfamiliar with how diesels run.

"Obviously, there are some engines that are covered by the customer service program that we do need to fix," Ray said.

"But on some of these vehicles there's nothing wrong with them. The customers just perceive there's something wrong", So far, the troubles have not dimmed the enthusiasm of many owners.

Several customers who got buybacks appear to be replacing their old models with new 2004 versions.

"They're going to get it right," said Steffen, who's owned four Ford diesel trucks before this one.

"It worries me when". Reuters.

http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/article/ford-struggles-with-diesel-truck-complaints-2003-08-18

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Did you see this line in the text you posted Rex?

 "But Carso says the engine is extremely complex and requires "outstanding diagnostic capabilities" to properly identify and repair the faulty parts."

That means they don't want people like you to touch it... Better to let the professionals (Mafia) do it, and keep the repair cost below $12,000.00


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Outstanding Diagnostic Capabilities?

More like a whole shit load of money to replace all the parts that are KNOWN to be defective. And just who is Carso? He is a spokesman for International! LOL, I bet he would say anything to pass the buck... Too bad the people he was talking about were the DEALER TECHS!

I do consider my Diagnostic Capabilities to be OUTSTANDING. I love breaking the International/Ford Motor Company Code! Not only can I fix them, I can fix them for LESS.

Powerstroker needs a reality check... These problems were due to the techs at FORD MOTOR COMPANY being unable to repair the vehicles. Real problem is that even once its fixed, its just a matter of time before the next thing goes. You can choose to keep it up, or let it all pile up. If you really let it go, 12K wont even get you back on the road.



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Sigh...

A little fact about PowerStroker:  The last dealer I worked at, was the Ford Regional RAV (Re-acquired vehicle) repair center for my 5 state area.  This means that on top of being a regular dealership, it also repaired all of Ford's lemon law buy backs in the 5 state area before those vehicles went to auction.  I was the only diesel tech at that store, and as such, mine was a trial by fire. 

I can remember a few occasions back in 04 when I showed up for work on Monday morning to have an entire row about 12-15 freshly towed in 6.0 Super Duties waiting for me.  Usually they would play out something like this: 6 would have absolutely nothing wrong because the previous dealer fixed the problem, but they were bought back anyway for customer satisfaction reasons.  Those were my favorite because I could just "fluff" them and take them for an hour road test around Lake Calhoun to make sure everything was ok (and look at boobies).  3 would need some kind of "medium" repair like an injector replacement, turbo, or something to that effect.  Maybe a couple would only need a software reflash to shut off pilot injection or something that wasn't available at the time they were bought back... usually these had rusted brake rotors from sitting so long on some obscure dealers overflow lot.  and Of the 12-15 maybe 1 needed me to really tear into it and do something difficult or kick my ass for a while until I figured it out. 

Since the 6.0 came out in the 03 model year I have fixed more than a thousand of them.  Of that thousand, less than 15 have needed more than $12,000 to get back running normal.



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PowerStroker wrote:

Sigh...

A little fact about PowerStroker:  The last dealer I worked at, was the Ford Regional RAV (Re-acquired vehicle) repair center for my 5 state area.  This means that on top of being a regular dealership, it also repaired all of Ford's lemon law buy backs in the 5 state area before those vehicles went to auction.  I was the only diesel tech at that store, and as such, mine was a trial by fire. 

I can remember a few occasions back in 04 when I showed up for work on Monday morning to have an entire row about 12-15 freshly towed in 6.0 Super Duties waiting for me.  Usually they would play out something like this: 6 would have absolutely nothing wrong because the previous dealer fixed the problem, but they were bought back anyway for customer satisfaction reasons.  Those were my favorite because I could just "fluff" them and take them for an hour road test around Lake Calhoun to make sure everything was ok (and look at boobies).  3 would need some kind of "medium" repair like an injector replacement, turbo, or something to that effect.  Maybe a couple would only need a software reflash to shut off pilot injection or something that wasn't available at the time they were bought back... usually these had rusted brake rotors from sitting so long on some obscure dealers overflow lot.  and Of the 12-15 maybe 1 needed me to really tear into it and do something difficult or kick my ass for a while until I figured it out. 

Since the 6.0 came out in the 03 model year I have fixed more than a thousand of them.  Of that thousand, less than 15 have needed more than $12,000 to get back running normal.

 



I hope you realize that to most people only 15 vehicles needing more than $12K to get running normal is not really something to brag about. Considering that you worked at the RAV I am also willing to be that 50 of them were broomed via auction. Lets also factor in your in a 5 state area, these five states could be in the middle of nowhere, with very small cities for all we know. Furthermore there are 50 states, and to factor that all in means something wasnt designed right.

I would also like you to know that I fixed this vehicle you speak of on SEVERAL occasions. Fix it and the guy drove it cross country hauling 12K lbs minimum. He would come back with new problems, we would fix them, then send him back on the road. Finally the big stuff he had been putting off started to effect other things, and ultimatly REQUIRED substantial amounts of money to even get "Back on the road". Its no diffrent for me either, I own one now, and I can tell you its the biggest POS out there. But what can I say, I love to hate it. Kinda like you guys. I am sure wont get much money out of it, given the fact that it is a KNOWN problem child. So Ill keep it, and besides, if it breaks again, I can rebuild it... Make it better than Ford/International was.... Faster... Stronger.... Da Da Da Daahhhhh Da da da da da da da da.....

I have already searched out over 40 seperate cases of these vehicles costing an ARM and a LEG to keep running. I am saving them for when you guys want to start whining about me having to fix the $hit Ford/International bestowed on the public. Your mob will be exposed and there will be no moderators to save you when the regular joe gets wind of this web site. They will chew you into little peices and spit you out. Together WE will pick away at Ford Motor Companys problem child, Re-Build it... Make it better than Ford/International was.... Faster and Stronger.



-- Edited by SELLC at 06:34, 2009-03-12

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"I hope you realize that to most people only 15 vehicles needing more than $12K to get running normal is not really something to brag about. "

Out of about a thousand, I'd say that's not too unrealistic.  Usually one only hits the 12K mark with the replacement of a complete engine.  Usually I can actually FIX them instead of replacing them.

"Considering that you worked at the RAV I am also willing to be that 50 of them were broomed via auction. Lets also factor in your in a 5 state area, these five states could be in the middle of nowhere, with very small cities for all we know. Furthermore there are 50 states, and to factor that all in means something wasnt designed right."

All Rav's are broomed via auction after I finished them.  When they are a RAV, it means that ford has Already bought it back from the customer, and I believe they typically paid $2500 over Blue book.  There are no excort loner cars for RAV customers because FORD is the customer at that point, the previous owners already had their fat checks and bought  new vehicles.  Ford Paid for all of the repairs - typically the vehicles were still under warranty anyway.  All RAV's that get repaired and sold at auction include an additional 1 year 12,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty regardless of the vehicles age or current mileage.  My dealer was in Minnesota.  Midwestern states are Big, and include several Metropolitan areas ie: Minneapolis, St. Paul, Kansas City, Des Moines, Hudson, Green Bay, and on and on.

I would also like you to know that I fixed this vehicle you speak of on SEVERAL occasions.

Next time fix it right the first time.

I have already searched out over 40 seperate cases of these vehicles costing an ARM and a LEG to keep running. I am saving them for when you guys want to start whining about me having to fix the $hit Ford/International bestowed on the public.

Sometimes they legitimately need an expensive repair, Yours didn't.

Nice video, but you forgot the feather in my hat and my golden pimp cane.



-- Edited by PowerStroker at 13:42, 2009-03-12

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PowerStroker wrote:

Next time fix it right the first time.

Sometimes they legitimately need an expensive repair, Yours didn't.

Nice video, but you forgot the feather in my hat and my golden pimp cane.



Next time fix it right the first time? LOL, I think thats why Ford was having to buy them back idiot! Because they were fault prone.

Didnt need expensive repairs? Thats rather funny. So given all them boobies you have had the pleasure of seeing while driving customers trucks, that must have honed you're expert internet diagnostic skills too huh? NOT

Truth is you have never seen this truck in the flesh, you dont know what your talking about, and really you are somewhat sad. 



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Believe it or not, Ford isn't the only company that buys back vehicles under the lemon law or for customer satisfaction.  All manufacturers do - even your precious Mercedes.  While it is true Mercedes doesn't buy back nearly as many... there aren't nearly as many on the road.



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My precious Mercedes?

You make it sound.... Oh soooo....





For your information FROTO, its my customers whom keep me in a Mercedes. They also keep me in a PowerStroke, so that one day, I may get my Mercedes back from the wife and kids.

I am not saying other car companies have not had to buy back vehicles that were put together by crack heads on the line, however this paticular make is not the result of poor assembily, it is the result of poor engineering. Evidence of this can be proven with Fords turning away from the 6.0, and many of the systems that ran it.

I have infreeqent payloads here and there. My business does not DEPEND on having a truck for hauling. If it did, I would seriously avoid the 03-05 models 6.0 Powerstroke models, otherwise costly repairs and down time are almost SURE to break you.

I feel the 6.0 liter was a "Sports" diesel. Made for the guys who want the power and pep these trucks can offer when properly maintained. Given its "Sport" inspired systems and such, you can budget for spending a fair amount of money keeping it up and fixing all the $hit you are sure to break, and dont forget, its my opinion these trucks were engineered to break, ensuring a robust aftermarket parts business for the mother company. Lest we forget a car has moving parts, thus, its going to break anyway... Just how long it goes before doing so is where the skill comes in.

What I do find precious about the year Mercedes that I own, is that almost 99.9% of the parts were made in the same country as the car. It was also engineered under the premiss that one would own it for a lifetime, thus being "engineered like no other car in the world". That and the fact the MSRP sticker on it was $80,000..... In 1991! They dont make them like this anymore, not even Mercedes can match their own. Thats the quality that I like most in my Mercedes.

Now days with all these government mandates for emissions car companies have been forced to install systems that are otherwise redundant in effort to keep emissions to the lowest possible levels. This almost ensures that vehicles and engines that have been PROVEN to last, can be outdated, giving car companies a good excuse to keep switching things up.

I like all cars/trucks. I dont deal with Asian vehicles, I just dont care for them, so that takes out a bunch of manufatures from my list. If someone brought me an Asian car, I would likely turn it away. I am in no way impressed by the cars they have to offer. Heck 70% of the time they are an inexpensive asian knock off of a Mercedes. Lexus is a JOKE.



-- Edited by SELLC at 18:17, 2009-03-12

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SELLC wrote:

For your information FROTO, its my customers whom keep me in a Mercedes. They also keep me in a PowerStroke,


idea.gif WOW I just figured out how you got that 80k 18 year old ME/BE lmao.gif

 YOU MUST HAVE TRIED TO FIX IT FOR A CUSTOMER!!!!!!!!!!
Jeezzzz  I wonder how fucking much the bill ballooned to on that one before the poor guy decided to sign the car over before you took his first born and the deed to his fucking house.
snidely_whiplash.jpg
Then again..........Maybe thats how you got your home and wife too??????



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You think thats funny eastend? no

For your information I have had to work hard for my Mercedes and my Powerstroke.
BTW I have had about 5 F-Series trucks and 10 Merecedes. All of them were bought and paid for. None of them come to me for free. Hell even my very first vehicle, a 1985 Chevy S-10 pickup 2X2 with the 2.8 engine and feedback carb had to be rebuilt. The night before my 16th birthday I finished the rebuild of my engine and was on the road the next day. Paid $500 for that truck back then, but I can still remember how it made me feel at that time in my life. No other car has ever made me feel that independent, course I am sure the feeling somewhat wore off after I got broad sided by some chick in a Taurus. It rolled the truck three times and the passenger and I got out alive.

What are you driving eastend?



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Hi Rex nice to meet you - I've heard so much.

Don't worry, I know it feels like you have more and more enemies every day, but you've almost met all of the Mafia members by now...  At least most of the REALLY belligerent ones, our bench is still pretty deep though. 

Check out these stats...  2 of the threads are about YOU!!!  And they've had the most activity lately, this is why you've been getting so much attention. Don't you feel special?  The trick to having us leave you alone is to stop putting your foot in your mouth.  I know that will be difficult, but please try.

Mafia's (Cheney style) undisclosed private site:

Forum Stats
1308 Members
20 Forums
2288 Topics
20248 Posts

Max Online: 150 @ 01/26/09 09:57 PM


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I really think a lot of you guys are the same person. I dont know of this "Other" web forum, I poke around on the internet every now and then.

When someone informed me about the BS that was being said on Powerstroke.org I had it out with them. From that point on you and your multiple personalities started showing up here.

This forum is paid for by Photo CD customers. Funny that we dont even offer a Powerstroke CD yet, but we now seem to have a whole lot of Powerstroke members.

I am well aware that many forums will not tolorate your "Mob" tactics within the forums. If it werent for the fact I have moved several of my own post for being a jack-ass, I guess things would be sunshine and butterflies in here. I am not after anything, therefore I do not owe anyone (Except the CD customers). Even then what I owe the CD customers is only my best advice to any problem they may be having. Im sure it would turn a lot of thems stomachs to think they are paying for some of the BS that went down in here, but there you have it. By the people, for the people. Sure its nice being in charge, but Ill crash and erase the board before I let idiots take control of it! Period!



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Oh, and that private site is a wonderful place. A bunch of guys that actually know what they are talking about... unlike... nevermind...

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SELLC wrote:

You think thats funny eastend? no
What are you driving eastend?



 

 

 Funny no TRUE yesno



what am I driving? what would expect a Mafia member to drive?

badboy293.jpg?t=1236998054



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That thing looks pretty effe'n mean!

Bet you wish it was yours!

LOL

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I drive a short bus.

Get in.



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SELLC wrote:

That thing looks pretty effe'n mean!

Bet you wish it was yours!

LOL



Shit no I wouldn't want to drive that Hencho en Mexico shit box!


I prefer to Drive a truck made right here in the  GOOD OL'E   USA................by  Mexicans....................with parts from china.....confused.gif

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Hillbilly scored the short bus! Whoo-Hooo

Party time! Bring the whole shop!

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At least Hillbilly can fix a modern short bus. 

Tell you what Rex, If we have any questions about Pontiac big blocks from the 70's we'll come to you.  But for the sake of your customers, if they need work done to their modern Ford vehicle, please send them to us.  There is no way in hell a backyard mechanic like you would ever pull of a repair like this and have it run again.



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What? I am supposed to be impressed with the mere "Lifting" of the cab?

You are going to need something a little better than that. Looks like most of the work he did could have been done without having to remove the cab, but you know these dealer guys, they cant resist pulling the cab in order to make a 6 hour job into a 25 hour job. Can you imagine the cost of having such things done? Oh never mind, that truck looks like its under warranty. No wonder the cab had to come off.

Sure... I am willing to agree that mechanic has worked on more than one of these trucks. Look at his fancy light that fits right into the cab. The guy did a fine job. I liked the song and the video was a good watching.

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Here's a test for your Rex, can you tell us what part or parts the technician replaced in that video?????  It shouldn't be difficult for a genius like you.

Oh, and for extra credit, tell us why the technician had to remove the headlight assembly... it is not always necessary - can you figure it out???

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Monday 16th of March 2009 01:48:27 AM

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Looks like he spent most of his time sitting on the front bumper.

I dont know why he chose to remove just one headlight and opted to remove the cab. Had it been me I would have just left the cab on, pulled the radiator and condenser and did the damn job. Given the blur of the video I can tell exactly what he replaced. All I know is he stood at the back of the engine for less time than you seen him under the vehicle with a creeper. That has to prove he was milking the job. None the less the video was worth it, we should all be grateful for the owner of that truck, as he basiclly paid for that video.

-- Edited by SELLC on Monday 16th of March 2009 02:21:34 AM

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You HAVE to remove the cab on a 2008 truck to work on the engine.

It's a miserable cocksucker to do anything on it if you don't, and the workshop manual even specifies to take the cab off.

The headlight removal was necessary because one of the cage nuts that the cab mounts bolt to is spinning because it broke the tabs off the body.

It actually takes LESS time to take the body off, NOT making it a 25 hour job.

R&I of the cab pays 5.9 hours. 6.1 on a crewcab.

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And that was a warranty repair, I'm almost 100 percent certain of it.

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Also, the light that fits into the cab isn't for cabs. It's got a stretchy thing (stretchy thing is a special service tool, by the way) so you can clip it on a hood so you can see what the fuck you're doing in an engine compartment. It just so happens that you can clip it into the body access holes in the bottom of the cab.

Snap-On sells 'em.

-- Edited by Big Angry Hillbilly on Monday 16th of March 2009 06:18:47 PM

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Ding Ding Ding... Hillbilly Wins with a 100% score and 20 extra credit points for knowing about the headlight removal. 

Rex, if your truck breaks you may want to consider having Hillbilly fix it for you.

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Well he aught to know all about the 6.4.... He owns one.

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I agree Rex, How ironic that you own a 6.0 yet still don't have a clue about it

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PowerStroker wrote:

I agree Rex, How ironic that you own a 6.0 yet still don't have a clue about it




ZING!

 

I know about the 6.4 because FoMoCo gave me this really pretty certificate that says "Powerstroke Certified Diesel Technician"

 

I have several LT1 cars, too...wanna play in that forum too?  clap.gif



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Sorry I haven't been around guy's, had this urge to fuck a customer out of his truck, (Sarcasm),Then I came back to reality.  It really sucks having morals like that. In the business we in the Mafia are in we usually have/make customers for life. Not just because we work at the dealers and make customers come back, they come back because they want to. Usually the ones that stray off to the shops like "his" come back to us to fix their vehicles the correct way and oh yeah they keep them. Question to everyone here.....How many of you have had a mechanics lean put on a vehicle after trying to fix it for over a year? Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there laws protecting customers from this sort of predatory practice. In Michigan customers are legally entitled to a estimate of repair before work is started, and not to exceed 10% over the estimate without approval from the customer. You mean to tell me the customer was given this estimate and approved the 10-12K repair. I'd say the customer was not fully informed of this, I believe they would have yanked their vehicle out of the shop and traded it in before spending/losing their vehicle, for a repair like this. Any comments.....Pogo,Powerstroker, anyone???

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Sorry to bust your bubble Larry, but the customer was advised of ALL CHARGES up front, and signed the repair estimate. You lack so much information that you appear to be gasping for air.

I can see these sorts of outburst will result in some bannings in the near future. I dont have to tolarate it any longer.

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larryatsti wrote:

Sorry I haven't been around guy's, had this urge to fuck a customer out of his truck, (Sarcasm),Then I came back to reality.  It really sucks having morals like that. In the business we in the Mafia are in we usually have/make customers for life. Not just because we work at the dealers and make customers come back, they come back because they want to. Usually the ones that stray off to the shops like "his" come back to us to fix their vehicles the correct way and oh yeah they keep them. Question to everyone here.....How many of you have had a mechanics lean put on a vehicle after trying to fix it for over a year? Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't there laws protecting customers from this sort of predatory practice. In Michigan customers are legally entitled to a estimate of repair before work is started, and not to exceed 10% over the estimate without approval from the customer. You mean to tell me the customer was given this estimate and approved the 10-12K repair. I'd say the customer was not fully informed of this, I believe they would have yanked their vehicle out of the shop and traded it in before spending/losing their vehicle, for a repair like this. Any comments.....Pogo,Powerstroker, anyone???




The topic here is how the Ford 6.0 Powerstroke failed the customer.

Trying to blame the shop for the cost of repairs is like shooting the messenger, and such will not be tolerated.

Due to false statements you made in a previous thread about us deleting post, and now this, you have been Banned Larryatsti. Please find another forum to host your lies.


-- Edited by Administrator on Tuesday 17th of March 2009 08:24:42 PM

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"Trying to blame the shop for the cost of repairs is like shooting the messenger"
_________________________________________________________________


If that particular messenger's shop charges $11,600 more to accomplish the same thing, because it has to throw tons of extra parts at said vehicle as part of the diagnostic process.  Perhaps that "messenger" deserves to be shot.

You're a hack Rex, knowing is half the battle.

Suck it up



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Gosh you sure seem to have an attitude problem.

I guess only the stealerships can give estimates then. Wait, they just tell the guy to walk down the hall and get a new truck. We all know what happens to the old truck, and we all know what happend to you.



-- Edited by SELLC on Wednesday 18th of March 2009 08:43:11 AM

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Well, why don't you post a picture of the innitial estimate you gave that guy Rex?  That would put this isue to rest.

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You know better than that PowerStroker, and I know better than to release customer documents. Maybe at your dealership they release customer information, but thats not how it works here.

The issue is at rest. The time for such things has passed. Your talking things that went on several YEARS ago.

If it means anything to you, in the almost 1 year that I have owned this truck, it has given me nothing but problems.



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Ford Trucks & SUVs Recalled for Safety Reasons

Do you (or did you) own any of these potential lemon Ford trucks or lemon SUVs:

  • 2004 Ford F-250 Super Duty Pick-Up Truck
  • 2004 Ford F-350 Super Duty Pick-Up Truck
  • 2004 Ford F-450 Super Duty Pick-Up Truck
  • 2004 Ford F-550 Super Duty Pick-Up Truck
  • 2004 Excursion
  • 2004 Ford E-350
  • 2005 Ford E-450
  • 2005 Ford F-250 Super Duty Pick-Up Truck
  • 2005 Ford F-350 Super Duty Pick-Up Truck
  • 2005 Ford F-450 Super Duty Pick-Up Truck
  • 2005 Ford F-550 Super Duty Pick-Up Truck
  • 2005 Excursion
  • 2005 Ford E-350
  • 2005 Ford E-450

Also being investigated:

  • 2003 F-Series Super Duty Trucks.

Ford has announced that it is recalling 206,000 vehicles, most of them the large Ford Pick-Up Trucks and SUV vehicles, to fix safety defects that include sudden stalling of diesel engines.

About 180,000 6.0 liter diesel engine equipped vehicles are plagued with potentially faulty fuel injection control modules, apparently. Ford has admitted that it has no idea what percentage of the vehicles are affected with the known defect.

Ford reports that on those defective vehicles the control module wiring harness rubs against an engine bolt and some wiring terminals were not put together properly, resulting in electronic problems that can interfere with engine operation and cause stalling, among other things. Ford admits that if the vehicle stalls, it might not start again.

Ford admitted that it started receiving complaints back in 2004 shortly after the 6.0 diesel engine starting being shipped with the new vehicles.

Ford started an investigation into the stalling problem at that time, and the Federal Government started its own investigation in October 2004.

Incredibly, Ford has reported that Fords investigation has demonstrated that the reported stalling incidents in the affected vehicles do not present an unreasonable risk to safety. It is hard to understand how driving down the highway at 65 miles an hour and the vehicle stalling on you does not present an unreasonable risk to safety, unless you happen to be sitting at a desk in Detroit and not behind the wheel of the vehicle itself, one might suppose. Curiously, Ford has advised the Federal Government that Ford does not plan to make a statement to the media about the recall. Apparently the Federal Government is not serious enough about stalling defects to make them do it, either.

Ford is still investigating engine performance issues with the same diesel engine model in its 2003 truck line.

In addition to this recall, the Federal Government has announced that Ford also will recall almost 80,000 trucks from the 2005 model year because the fuel line may separate from the main fuel bundle, which can also cause engine stalling or fuel leaks, possibly resulting in a fire.

The Federal Government reports that this recall will involve the 2005 Ford F-250, F-350, F-450, and F-550 Super Duty Pick-Up Turks that are equipped with the 5.4 or 6.8 liter gasoline engines.

Once again, Ford seems to be trying to prove that it can recall vehicles just as well as anyone else.

Link- http://www.ohiolemonlaw.com/safety-recall-11.shtml



-- Edited by SELLC on Wednesday 18th of March 2009 07:40:00 PM

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OOOOOHHHHH an advertisement for Burdge Law Offices. 

We did the FICM harness connector recall 3 years ago, that one is expired bub.

If you get Mesothelioma call the Law offices of James Sokolove

If your junky old Mercedes takes a shit, call the ambulance chasers at Auto Trend

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Yeah I think your right. Too much advertising in that article.

Im going to modify it.

Asbestos Cancer you say PowerStroker? What do you know about it?

-- Edited by SELLC on Wednesday 18th of March 2009 07:47:11 PM

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SELLC wrote:

Yeah I think your right. Too much advertising in that article.

I'm glad we see eye to eye on something

Im going to modify it.

Insert Larry style comment like "we would expect nothing less from you" here

Asbestos Cancer you say PowerStroker? What do you know about it?

Old Mercedes were full of Asbestos

-- Edited by SELLC on Wednesday 18th of March 2009 07:47:11 PM



You know I was thinking.  You could cover up your former customers personal information and still show us the original estimate you gave him without breaching anything.

You could also show us a picture of your 6.0 rear main tools.

The aforementioned would go a long way toward raising your stock in the Mafia... Unless you LIKE us busting your balls constantly

 



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SELLC wrote:

This forum is paid for by Photo CD customers. Funny that we dont even offer a Powerstroke CD yet, but we now seem to have a whole lot of Powerstroke members.




I guess Rex never heard of Coffee Table Books  biggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrin

Miss me yet Ralph  biggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrin

 



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OOOH sign me up, there's nothing I need more than a Powerstroke photo cd from REX.

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I'm going to take this thread right back to near the beginning....

Some wiener quotes "Bob Carso"....

Not much later, the same wiener a get's his quote tossed back at him.... and this wiener has the balls to ask who the fuck it is he quoted....

Now... everyone is going to have to forgive me here.... but if I am going to quote someone. wouldn't I want to verify this persons pedigree? Or are we just going to toss cut and paste out there and pray like hell nobody calls us on it?

Poohawk - YOU quoted BobCarso.... it is up to you to tell us why his quote mattered.

I imagine this new popularity is nothing less than amazing.... Probably the first time in years that you've had both hands above your desk at the same time.

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You call this popularity? no

I dont know who Bob is personally, but from the looks of things, you Ford techs are trying to stomp out a fire that keeps on spreading.

Why dont you tell us what was so important about ole' Bobbys quote mattered so much.



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SELLC wrote:

You call this popularity? no

I dont know who Bob is personally, but from the looks of things, you Ford techs are trying to stomp out a fire that keeps on spreading.

Why dont you tell us what was so important about ole' Bobbys quote mattered so much.



Nothing about the quote really mattered.... other than you felt it was worth quoting just before you asked who the fuck he was....

You did this big cut and paste thing without reading the article.... It looked like the article was going to support your stance... The article included a quote .... If the quote didn't matter, why the fuck did you make it?

What was so important about Bobbys statement that you felt the need to quote it... and then felt the need to make yourself look like a fool by not knowng that you did it?

Rex... take a step backwards... give your head a shake and then do something totally different... come out THINKING.

 



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Lookie Here REX, Google works both ways

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Mercedes Benz SL class:

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SL320, SL430, SL500, SL580, SL55 AMG, SL280, SL300, SL320, SL500, SL600, SL60 AMG. (R129)



« Prev
1 2 3 Next » David writes:
2003 SL 500 designo introductory model mileage at sale about 5,000- purchased new in April 2002 - This vehicle was in the shop so often it made ownership a misery (main issue was electrical, after five visits for diagnoses and work the Mercedes dealership mechanics still could not get the automatic lights to work). The worst thing about this car was not the electrical issues but the leather/suede trim of the designo edition. This trim could not handle the high heat and humidity of Houston Texas, it smelled like cat's piss - The LA Times noted that this may have been caused by the glue MB used, regardless I was offered no compensation. I will always wonder if somehow an animal had relieved itself in the vehicle, but conversations with another owner of the same designo model (and also with the dealership's mechanics) confirm that this outrageous smell is widespread with the designo trim. I lost about $10,000 on this vehicle. I doubt whether Mercedes ever properly heat tested a designo vehicle and I suspect it should never have been sold for use in Texas.


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Peter writes:
I bought an SL 500 in September 2003 [August 2003 build].
  • 1. Factory installed Mobile Phone [Nokias 6310i] constantly refuses to work - this is only minor irrritation except they changed the law here last week!
  • 2. Terrible rattles over uneven roads [this is a BIG issue as most small A & B roads in the UK are uneven!]. It's been in for repair for 2 days and again for 3 more days. As one accellerates even gently it sounds as though the car is bending or tearing apart under duress.. a disconcerting creaking noise, and in addition so many rattles from seat, roof, and rear compartments it's hard to tell where they are coming from. The noise from the drive train also sounds rough!! as though it has no oil in it. This is my 6th Mercedes and the only one that sounds like a bigfiat punto.
  • 3. I noticed a rather nasty small that I thought was the catalytic converter - as they can stink a bit when new. However I did notice that it was worse when one had opened up the engine some and was therefore hot! Now I keep reading about the hot weather in Texas causing a smell like cat's pee - So I'm really looking forward to next summer!!!! PS: I have 'Exclusive' Nappa leather i.e. it's all over all the panels - the dash area and rear compartment area etc. In Nappa Leather but not a Designo colour.
I also had a real problem with 'tramlining' [following ruts in the road] on the make of factory fitted tyres, this brand made the car seriuosly unstable under heavy braking. It was so bad that tyre manufacturer immediately paid me ~ $1,360 to buy a replacement set of 18" Pirelli P Zero Rossos. This cured the problem totally! Now drives beautifully but rattles like hell.

Anybody else had rattling noises on the Glass Roof? Please let me know as i would like to decide do I sell this car and buy something elso or do I just have a one off Lemon! In the UK we regretably do not have the 'Lemon Law' and Mercedes feel it is beneath them to talk to customers even if it is a Safety issue. I really wish Chysler had not bought MB as the cars are now just overpriced ~ $126,000 Ford look-a-likes! or are my expectations too high?


Bill writes:
what's the current status? Did you file for lemon law? I bought my SL500 from Fletcher and have had many problems, leaking roof, elect, all the leather turned green and has been replaced, doors will unlock when you hit a bump, fuel gauage, paint and body damage while in for service.Fletcher sends out warranty work to non MDUSA certified shops and use cheap labor as well as replacement parts that are not MB. I have filed a lemon law against MBUSA and Flectcher Jones. I have a court date for Sept 2nd.


Joe writes:
having same problem with MB rep..never called me...cars 2001 sl500 has had problems with soft top, window, gas gauge, lights., tire sqeeling constintly, etc..been to dealer over 18 times so far and counting..going lemonlaw with this and damages


David writes:
I purchased my 1998 sl500 from Flecther Jones in Newport Beach, Ca in early 2000. It was a "pre-owned" model with about 7000 miles on it. It has been in the shop so ofter that my neibors kid me about the number of new "loaner" always in my driveway. The most critical problem is that periodically while driving at a maintained speed the car just dies.. no power nothing. It has happened at freeway speeds, slower sppeds etc. When I pull over "coasting" the car will not start for about 15 minutes.

After numerous meetings with Fletcher, thet simply tell me nothing is in the computer and they cannot duplicate the problem. It is not only frustration but down right dangerous. This car has 78,000 miles on it and has so many parts replaced it is almost funny. Including new leather interior, remachined and rebuilt left bank of cylinders, complete rewiring of zenon headlamp,powerseering pump, metal ribs in convertable top, 7 new visors, all plastic parts from sun damage( it is a convertable! maybe they should have tested the effect of the sun on the parts) electronic transmission wiring, front srtut tower brackets-due to cracking welds, the lights in the dash and shifter marker and acces. 2 fuel tank guages this list comtinues and I won't bore people. The paint chips really easily in the front area, my front tires ( with AMG wheels and Mich Pilots) won't stay alighned. The tire people I use now computer adjust them every month.

Botton line is that this was a $90,000. dollar vehicle when new and while I love driving it ( I also have a classic style 560sl) I cannot understand the poor design and quality . A service advisor once laughed as he changed some burned out bulbs yet again," These are the same type bulbs used in my 58 Chevey, youwould think the electrical system woulds would have advance more in so many years". I hope this long email finds some other interested in this propblem with Merceds Benz.


David writes:
2001SL current mileage: 14,000 - leased new in the summer of 2001 - it has as been in the shop for six different events (air conditioning problems on multiple occasions, lights, external trim falling off, loud clattering noises, driver seat squeaking). I would dearly love to trade this one back or sell it if I could get a better price! I am told the value is about $46,000 and Mercedes-Benz Credit Corp has a book value on my lease of about $62,000 - sp it's cheaper for me to pay the remaining eleven payments than return the vehicle now.


Sharyl writes:
I purchased my 1999 SL500 Sport 'pre-owned' with 23000 miles and an extended "StarMark Warranty" covering the car up to a full 2 years/100000 miles. New, this car cost almost 99000 US Dollars. Thus far, I've enjoyed:

- Chipping quickly wearing paint at all surfaces exposed to head-on road debris
- Uneven wearing of the front tires not comparable to the rear
- Dash lights going out then on again intermittently
- A trunk lid which won't open, seemingly, if the temperature is over 85 deg F. Of course, the dealer can't reproduce the problem.
- Wearing leather not commensurate with the car's use
- A driver's window which vibrates mercilessly when it rains
- A transmission that once disengaged as I tried to merge into high speed traffic
- Extreme brake noise/squeal. I'm told that 'It's Normal'
I'm bracing for further problems. Time to consider other brands.


George writes:
I have a 2003 SL55 and a 2004 S600. They both have had numerous problems with different items, and to the dealer's credit they have ironed out every one of them after 4 months of working on both cars. One problem that both cars have though and the dealer has never heard of this before, is that as I tried to get into traffic from an onramp, both cars jumped out of gear and went into neutral. One of those times was scary indeed as a truck almost hit me. The car seems to be running fine and the gear shift is in Drive but has no transmission power. If you take it out of Drive shut it down and start it back up it runs fine. Until next time? Both cars have done this once each. Has anyone had that happen before? The dealer has been good about fixing all the short comings of the Mercedes but as a long time owner of Mercedes (have had six cars in the past) I am sure that I will not buy them anymore.


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James writes:
My 450 SL staulls when hot and will not cranck or turn over, sluggish taking off at a stop sign. Will compeletly die when engine is warn but Ok in the mornings and no problem starting when cold.


Zach writes:
SL 500 designo model. Mercedes and the dealer have been quite difficult to deal with since there concerned about being my wife being sick from the fumes from the door panel. after much screaming the told the door panel glued separated and thats where the smell came from. first we told it was cat pee! my wife has been very sick since the exposure of at least 3 months when they could not find the problem.they have refused to tell of the exact nature of the glue if thats what it is. the cars still smells bad after they replaced most of the interior.at this point mercedes has ingnored our request for more information and deletes messages i put on there web site i am looking for other people with same and to know if is not feeling well. this problem is not only annoying but dangerous and there has not been a recall or alert to any owners of this model


Frank writes:
My friend's Mercedes has a problem. When the car is left for more than three days the battery will not start the car. Eventully something is draining the battery when it is left for just a few days. Mercedes dealer says this is my friend's fault - that she is not driving the car enough and fast enough to keep the battery charged. There only suggestion is to provide a device that she can plug into an electric socket in her garage and keep the battery charged. Of course this will do no good when she must leave the car at the airport parking lot. What can be done??


Jeffry writes:
I have a 2000 SL500, piece of #@$% is now ticking, they say because I did not have the oil changed at the dealer (went somewhere else because the dealer is a bit of a drive, and I don't have much time on my hands) that they would not fix the car under warrantee. To further this upset, they then tell me; Mr. Williams it appears as if your car has thrown rod bearings in one of the cylinders, it is a matter of time before a connecting rod comes through the side wall of your 135,000.00 AMG! And a new engine is 40k.


David writes:
2003 SL 500 designo introductory model mileage at sale about 5,000- purchased new in April 2002 - This vehicle was in the shop so often it made ownership a misery (main issue was electrical, after five visits for diagnoses and work the Mercedes dealership mechanics still could not get the automatic lights to work). The worst thing about this car was not the electrical issues but the leather/suede trim of the designo edition. This trim could not handle the high heat and humidity of Houston Texas, it smelled like cat's piss - The LA Times noted that this may have been caused by the glue MB used, regardless I was offered no compensation. I will always wonder if somehow an animal had relieved itself in the vehicle, but conversations with another owner of the same designo model (and also with the dealership's mechanics) confirm that this outrageous smell is widespread with the designo trim. I lost about $10,000 on this vehicle. I doubt whether Mercedes ever properly heat tested a designo vehicle and I suspect it should never have been sold for use in Texas.



Peter writes:
I bought an SL 500 in September 2003 [August 2003 build].
1. Factory installed Mobile Phone [Nokias 6310i] constantly refuses to work - this is only minor irrritation except they changed the law here last week!
2. Terrible rattles over uneven roads [this is a BIG issue as most small A & B roads in the UK are uneven!]. It's been in for repair for 2 days and again for 3 more days. As one accellerates even gently it sounds as though the car is bending or tearing apart under duress.. a disconcerting creaking noise, and in addition so many rattles from seat, roof, and rear compartments it's hard to tell where they are coming from. The noise from the drive train also sounds rough!! as though it has no oil in it. This is my 6th Mercedes and the only one that sounds like a bigfiat punto.
3. I noticed a rather nasty small that I thought was the catalytic converter - as they can stink a bit when new. However I did notice that it was worse when one had opened up the engine some and was therefore hot! Now I keep reading about the hot weather in Texas causing a smell like cat's pee - So I'm really looking forward to next summer!!!! PS: I have 'Exclusive' Nappa leather i.e. it's all over all the panels - the dash area and rear compartment area etc. In Nappa Leather but not a Designo colour.
I also had a real problem with 'tramlining' [following ruts in the road] on the make of factory fitted tyres, this brand made the car seriuosly unstable under heavy braking. It was so bad that tyre manufacturer immediately paid me ~ $1,360 to buy a replacement set of 18" Pirelli P Zero Rossos. This cured the problem totally! Now drives beautifully but rattles like hell.

Anybody else had rattling noises on the Glass Roof? Please let me know as i would like to decide do I sell this car and buy something elso or do I just have a one off Lemon! In the UK we regretably do not have the 'Lemon Law' and Mercedes feel it is beneath them to talk to customers even if it is a Safety issue. I really wish Chysler had not bought MB as the cars are now just overpriced ~ $126,000 Ford look-a-likes! or are my expectations too high?



Bill writes:
I bought my SL500 from Fletcher [Jones Newport Beach] and have had many problems, leaking roof, elect, all the leather turned green and has been replaced, doors will unlock when you hit a bump, fuel gauage, paint and body damage while in for service.Fletcher sends out warranty work to non MDUSA certified shops and use cheap labor as well as replacement parts that are not MB. I have filed a lemon law against MBUSA and Flectcher Jones. I have a court date for Sept 2nd.


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Joe writes:
having same problem with MB rep..never called me...cars 2001 sl500 has had problems with soft top, window, gas gauge, lights., tire sqeeling constintly, etc..been to dealer over 18 times so far and counting..going lemonlaw with this and damages


David writes:
I purchased my 1998 sl500 from Flecther Jones in Newport Beach, Ca in early 2000. It was a "pre-owned" model with about 7000 miles on it. It has been in the shop so ofter that my neibors kid me about the number of new "loaner" always in my driveway. The most critical problem is that periodically while driving at a maintained speed the car just dies.. no power nothing. It has happened at freeway speeds, slower sppeds etc. When I pull over "coasting" the car will not start for about 15 minutes.

After numerous meetings with Fletcher, thet simply tell me nothing is in the computer and they cannot duplicate the problem. It is not only frustration but down right dangerous. This car has 78,000 miles on it and has so many parts replaced it is almost funny. Including new leather interior, remachined and rebuilt left bank of cylinders, complete rewiring of zenon headlamp,powerseering pump, metal ribs in convertable top, 7 new visors, all plastic parts from sun damage( it is a convertable! maybe they should have tested the effect of the sun on the parts) electronic transmission wiring, front srtut tower brackets-due to cracking welds, the lights in the dash and shifter marker and acces. 2 fuel tank guages this list comtinues and I won't bore people. The paint chips really easily in the front area, my front tires ( with AMG wheels and Mich Pilots) won't stay alighned. The tire people I use now computer adjust them every month.

Botton line is that this was a $90,000. dollar vehicle when new and while I love driving it ( I also have a classic style 560sl) I cannot understand the poor design and quality . A service advisor once laughed as he changed some burned out bulbs yet again," These are the same type bulbs used in my 58 Chevey, youwould think the electrical system woulds would have advance more in so many years". I hope this long email finds some other interested in this propblem with Merceds Benz.


Anonymous writes:
2001 SL current mileage: 14,000 - leased new in the summer of 2001 - it has as been in the shop for six different events (air conditioning problems on multiple occasions, lights, external trim falling off, loud clattering noises, driver seat squeaking). I would dearly love to trade this one back or sell it if I could get a better price! I am told the value is about $46,000 and Mercedes-Benz Credit Corp has a book value on my lease of about $62,000 - sp it's cheaper for me to pay the remaining eleven payments than return the vehicle now.


Sharyl writes:
I purchased my 1999 SL500 Sport 'pre-owned' with 23000 miles and an extended "StarMark Warranty" covering the car up to a full 2 years/100000 miles. New, this car cost almost 99000 US Dollars. Thus far, I've enjoyed:

- Chipping quickly wearing paint at all surfaces exposed to head-on road debris
- Uneven wearing of the front tires not comparable to the rear
- Dash lights going out then on again intermittently
- A trunk lid which won't open, seemingly, if the temperature is over 85 deg F. Of course, the dealer can't reproduce the problem.
- Wearing leather not commensurate with the car's use
- A driver's window which vibrates mercilessly when it rains
- A transmission that once disengaged as I tried to merge into high speed traffic
- Extreme brake noise/squeal. I'm told that 'It's Normal'
I'm bracing for further problems. Time to consider other brands.


George writes:
I have a 2003 SL55 and a 2004 S600. They both have had numerous problems with different items, and to the dealer's credit they have ironed out every one of them after 4 months of working on both cars. One problem that both cars have though and the dealer has never heard of this before, is that as I tried to get into traffic from an onramp, both cars jumped out of gear and went into neutral. One of those times was scary indeed as a truck almost hit me. The car seems to be running fine and the gear shift is in Drive but has no transmission power. If you take it out of Drive shut it down and start it back up it runs fine. Until next time? Both cars have done this once each. Has anyone had that happen before? The dealer has been good about fixing all the short comings of the Mercedes but as a long time owner of Mercedes (have had six cars in the past) I am sure that I will not buy them anymore.




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"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."     Lyndon B. Johnson

BLACK LIVES MATTER



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LOL

Picking on Mercedes Benz again huh?

I hope you guys dont really think I hold any hard feelings twards Fords, or its techs. This thread was started in responce to some accusations that were made stating that the 6.0 didnt need serious repairs, or enough to merit some $9K.

Yes every manufacture has thier bad ones. Just like in the 80's when GM tried to make a diesel 350 that flopped big time. Just like Fords 6.0 (International/Navistar) flopped. Only diffrence is that Ford could point the finger at International. Maybe they learned something back in the 80's about how to spin off a problem child.

Meanwhile they send all their cranky, grumpy techs in here to make my life as miserable as their own.

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SELLC wrote:

Meanwhile they send all their cranky, grumpy techs in here to make my life as miserable as their own.


 Is it working???



__________________

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."     Lyndon B. Johnson

BLACK LIVES MATTER

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