PowerStroker... You know that is bullshit...

If that were REALLY the case, there would be no need to be hiring swaths of new IRS agents. There would be no need to call it a "Fine".

You remind me a lot of this guy named Obama, he likes to bullshit his way thru life too.

NBC.

You know at one time PowerStroker, slavery was the law of the land too.

Forcing people to buy a product seems a lot like slavery to me, only this time the entire nation is made into slaves... Well except for congress.

You are just angry that the Republicans are doing what they promised.

Must anger you that some people are capable of doing what they say. It might take them 2-3 years but they will get it done, and when I say "Done" I mean "Done RIGHT". None of this half ass shit the Democrats are famous for.

You aren't too bright PowerStroker... I have always known that about you.

Were just covering our asses when 2014 rolls around and the angry masses of people that realize how badly the Dems fucked them call for your heads. Of course by then the Democrats will be out of office and we WILL be able to do something about it.

Yeah that's what I am saying...

You have just mentioned the icing on top of the cake, the "good" parts if you will...

Once this monster reveals itself and the "Bad" parts then I think many of the little things you mention above will become irrelevant.

Oh and by the way PowerStroker... 30,000,000 more people WONT have insurance in 2014 idiot! 30,000,000 more people will be REQUIRED to purchase insurance. Many of them don't make enough to pay for insurance now, and when 2014 rolls around many of them STILL wont have to money to purchase insurance. Do you know what will happen to them if they don't purchase insurance? Well on top of NOT HAVING insurance, they will now have a fine to pay. Do you know what will happen when they dont buy insurance, fail to pay their fine, and then end up in the emergency room? You guessed it... The same thing that happens every day today.

That is unless of course part of this new laws puts an end to the hospitals being "Required" to treat a patient. If that be the case, then god help anyone who might run into financial problems and or has lost their insurance card.

It's already a fact this health care law is going to cost us WAY more than what is stated. In fact no one can say for sure just how much it's going to cost. Saying Prescription drug cost will go down is another outright lie, because many people that are having to buy them on the streets now or going without will be getting YOU to pay for them in 2014.

With regards to kids being on their parents insurance until 26... Well I think they should have quit sucking their mommas tit at 18, but none the less it's irrelevant considering that there would be no need to have to carry your kids on your health care plan until 26 once this law goes into effect, RIGHT POWERSTROKER?

BECAUSE IN 2014 EVERYONE WILL BE INSURED! RIGHT POWERSTROKER?

b...b...but you said 30,000,000 more poeple would have insurance PowerStroker!

That's what you said!

BWAHAHAHAHAHA The CBO is FOS!

Yeah I am sure you would...

That's why we are $14 Trillion plus in debt!

Why even bother to include the word BUDGET in their name? Are we to believe we have a Budget for the amount of "Debt" we are in? LOL... You Idiot... I bet your the same kind of guy who would over pay for a house just because some Realtor said several other suckers paid that much for a house in the neighborhood not long ago... Yeah I want someone like you, or what you perceive as a reliable analysis when it comes to money! NOT! LOL

Give me a fucking break PowerStroker!

You have been buffaloed once, and it looks like your taking the bait hook line and sinker once more! Choke on it!

Riiiight....

You keep telling yourself that PowerStroker.

MSNBC Says

"The new Congressional Budget Office estimates will add fuel to a raging debate over cutting spending and looming legislation that's required to allow the government to borrow more money as the national debt nears the $14.3 trillion cap set by law. Republicans controlling the House say there's no way they'll raise the limit without significant cuts in spending, starting with a government funding bill that will advance next month.

The CBO analysis predicts the economy will grow by 3.1 percent this year, but that joblessness will remain above 9 percent this year. Dauntingly for President Obama, the nonpartisan agency estimates a nationwide unemployment rate of 8.2 percent on Election Day in 2012."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41272983/ns/politics-more_politics/

So it appears to me that the CBO is nothing more than a market speculator with access to privileged information. Even still they can't seem to do much right given the fact that they we are $14.3 trillion in the hole. Where the hell were they when we got $1.00 in the hole? You would think the very idea of operating on borrowed money would have fallen out of style back in the late 1970's and 80's! But no here we are having to feel like a tax break is adding to a debt. The government is the biggest waster of money out there. All this money paid to bureaucrats for their bureaucracy. Nothing but jaw action and nothing to show for the money but libraries full of books and laws. We aren't getting nothing tangable out of this. We need to start taking money from countries we have had to liberate. Don't they know that freedom isn't free? All this money we been giving to Afghanistan, Iraq and all the other third world nations needs to be returned! Hell we were pumping money into China not too long ago either because they could not feed their people. Why don't Obama and the Dumbocrats start squeezing money from them? It's because he aint got the balls!

Spare me your BS about the CBO PowerStroker! If they were worth a damn we wouldn't be in this mess! Now they suggest that we should increase our debt, FUCK YOU! Time to start firing some bureaucrats, ending entitlement programs and making politicians take the fucking bus! It's time for a REAL BUDGET and people in Washington aren't going to like it, but they are the ones who got us here!

CBO and JCT estimate that by 2019, the two pieces of legislation combined will reduce the number of nonelderly people who are uninsured by about 32 million, leaving about 23 million nonelderly residents uninsured.

http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/health.cfm

-- Edited by SELLC on Thursday 27th of January 2011 02:44:47 PM

After the first 10 years it starts paying us back. Think it of as an investment.

Actually it's bipartisan bullshit, even though it only got 1 Republican vote, it's still packed full of Republican ideas like the mandate. If Democrats were all powerful we would have a fully socialized single payer system where everybody is fully covered period.

Joseph Cao, Republican representing Louisiana's 2nd congressional district voted for the innitial (more liberal) version of it.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/08/joseph-cao-voting-for-hea_n_349929.html



Now that's a Republican I could consider voting for.

Also, Senator Olympia Snowe (R) Maine voted for it in the finance committee so it could be merged with the other Senate committees bills and eventually brought to the floor for a vote.





-- Edited by PowerStroker on Friday 28th of January 2011 12:42:15 PM

Don't I just drive you nuts sometimes?

It also shows there were at least a couple of Republicans who wanted to vote for the final version, but weren't strong enough to stand up to their leaders. Maybe someday they will develop that strength, and then they can become Democrats.

Was that a Republican vote in favor of Obamacare I saw appear at the 3:08 mark?

Yes, yes it was!!!!!

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Saturday 29th of January 2011 04:44:43 PM

Nope, that was Joseph Cao's intentional yay vote for health care reform.

Google it.

I dunno, he lost his seat to a real Democrat, but I do appreciate his effort in bucking his party.

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Saturday 29th of January 2011 07:52:38 PM

First off, what's wrong with social security?

Second, If I were you, I wouldn't start doing victory laps just because this one judge agrees with you, the ultimate decision will be decided by a higher court. And even if it goes to the supreme court, and they agree with this judge, we can just impose a public option or Medicare for all, which is without question a constitutional remedy, but it's even more Big Government than the current law. Careful what you wish for.

The individual mandate is severable though, we went to great lengths to make sure it was because the problem of right wing judges pulling this kind of stunt was anticipated well in advance of it actually happening.  If anything happens, it will be that the individual mandate may be stripped from the law, but not the rest of it.

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Monday 31st of January 2011 09:55:50 PM

PowerStroker wrote:

---

First off, what's wrong with social security?

---

Eh... Are you kidding me? It's going to be broke in a very short time. You can keep trying to sell your mis-information about it being solvent with current influxes, but what you cant seem to wrap your head around is the simple fact that projections show that the influxes WILL NOT BE ENOUGH to cover the liabilities. They project that will happen in 15 years, but if the Democrats keep screwing things up it could happen a lot sooner. Since there are a LOT of unemployed people (Way over 10% in reality) there is less going into the fund. If the economy gets worse all the money that Social Security loaned out will not be collectible, and thus it could go bust much sooner than you think.

It was a poor idea, and I have never considered relying on Social Security and when it comes time for me to retire I am pretty sure there wont be much left to hand out.

 

PowerStroker no one is buying your Democrat propaganda with regards to Social Security. Social Security is IN SERIOUS TROUBLE. It's really no different than you guys making a mess out of Fanny and Freddie. Everyone knows Social Security is in trouble, and no one is buying your BS. We all know that Democrats are responsible for S.S. so naturally they will lie till their blue in the face.

Now back to the topic of this thread... Republicans plan on holding a vote this week to repeal the health care bill and the Democrats are scared shitless. They have good reason to be scared, the last time they had to go on record in support of this illegal law, most of them got fired!

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/02/01/5968112-senate-gop-to-try-to-force-health-care-repeal-vote-

I think you missed the point... Social Security is doing a fine job of repealing itself by way of insolvency.

The health care law on the other hand... Well that needs to be stomped out like fire.

I think dropping the mandate would resolve the issues regarding the the illegality of the law (which I find ironic that we have a law that is illegal), however I have my doubts that allowing the rest of the protections would be financially feasible for people paying for insurance. What I mean is the rates would rise, drastically.

Don't get me wrong, I feel that even with the mandate it would prove financially infeasible for well over the 30,000,000 people they estimate would still lack insurance, and as it is RIGHT now is not going to prevent medical bankruptcies, and we will still have problems with people going to the emergency room without the funds to pay for it.

No PowerStroker, I think a more comprehensive plan needs to be drawn up. One where EVERYONE is covered with a "base" plan that covers them in the event of an emergency or life threatening illness. There are many ways that revenue for this "base" plan could be funded. There are many ways that EVERYONE could be contributing to the fund as well. Lets face it, with over 300,000,000 people in the USA just a simple $1.00 per day adds up. Factor in some bureaucracy cutting, along with some regulations on ER visits and I think the idea of health care for all could be a reality, and still make the medical profession a gainful employment. People could elect to have a more comprehensive insurance plan that gives them additional benefits, but the basic "base" plan is already in effect today considering if you go to an emergency room, they have to treat you, only under a BASE plan, they would have to treat you better.

Exams should also be part of this "base" plan, for people to get checked out to avoid a simple condition from getting more expensive. Children should be 100% covered until 18, yet people who choose to pay for better insurance for their kids would naturally have access to better benefits.

The bottom line is that everyone have "base" coverage, that will prevent them from being bankrupt should an accident or illness become life threatening. I am not saying things like plastic surgery, breast implants, penis enlargements, gold teeth, drug abusers or non-life threatening things should be covered under the BASE plan, and these things would encourage people to buy better "aftermarket" plans.

It can't be that hard PowerStroker... What is 300,000,000 X $1.00 per day X 365 days per year come out to be? I am not saying every person gets a bill for 1 dollar per day, rather finding a way to raise that amount in the form of a tax that gets spread out evenly. People who buy more pay a little more. Maybe the combinations of multiple streams.

Just so long as everyone is covered, and the people that make a living in health care can still live well enough to attract good people to care for us.