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Post Info TOPIC: Democrats can't even keep the Government from shutting down!
Do you think a partial Government shut down will happen? [4 vote(s)]

Yes, Democrats want too much money
50.0%
No, the Republicans are just making them sweat
25.0%
It's Obamas fault
25.0%


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Democrats can't even keep the Government from shutting down!


How the hell are we supposed to trust them with our health care!?

I think this kind of thing shows why it's not a good idea to have the government tied up into our health care. I guess all them million dollar vacations, I mean trips Obama took over-seas to accept his Nobel Peace Price, For the Chicago Olympics, and his really expensive vacation, I mean trip to India, Japan and his childhood romping grounds Indonesia are finally starting to rear their ugly head as the bills trickle in.

I seen him talking trying to blame everything on Republicans, but when he made the statement that you can't control Earthquakes or Tusnami's I felt his priorities were a little off. Seems to me Obama needs to start worring about the USA.

Do you think we are heading for another Government shut down? Let's see.... When was the last time the Government shut down? Wasn't that under Clinton? Wasn't Clinton a Democrat?

Spend....Spend...Spend! That's the Democrat way! The problem with socialism is sooner or later you run out of other peoples money! When that happens you have shut downs.

I have even read that things like Tax Returns, Passports and even Federal Court cases would be effected depending on how long the shut down last! And to think we are spending all kinds of money on a mission-less war in Afghanistan, along with helping every other nation but our own. Just Amazing!

Yea Democratizim!



-- Edited by SELLC on Wednesday 20th of April 2011 10:45:11 PM

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RE: Democrats can't even keep te Government from shutting down!


I mean imagine if we had a Government shut down and people could not get medical attention because the Government couldn't pay. How about social security?

It's plain to see that NOTHING is "Too Big to fail", not even the Government.



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RE: Democrats can't even keep the Government from shutting down!


So it seems Obama was able to keep the government from shutting down. Good for him.

Yet now it seems the Democrats are going to give Libya rebels $25,000,000.00 (25 Million) to help overthrow their government.

Seems to me that $25,000,000.00 even if in supplies would be better spent on Americans.

Then again what do I know... I am just a lowly ole' Mechanic.

Is it any wonder the Republicans are unwilling to raise the debt ceiling? These un-wise spenders need to be cut off NOW!



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Don't think for a second that not raising the debt ceiling is even an option. If you want the entire planet to crash in to the deepest economic depression the world has ever known, then cutting up America's credit card and not paying the bill would be by far the best way to accomplish such destruction.

The debt ceiling was raised 7 times under Bush, and it will be raised many more times before we can turn this ship around... It's going to be raised, the Republicans are just trying to negotiate some goodies for themselves in the process.

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7 times you say huh?

Care to show us when? Bush was only President for 8 years, are you suggesting he raised it every single year but one?

Tell us this, how much does Owebama want to raise it? How much did Bush raise it (all seven times combined).

I think these details would be important in figuring out whos spends like a drunken sailor.



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Those are 2 seperate questions. During Bush's first year there wasn't a need to raise it because we were in surplus. It's an annual thing that happens when we take in less than we spend in that fiscal year. The solution isn't to default on our payments by failing to raise the debt ceiling... The proper way to handle it if you're concerned about these deficits is to either buy less stuff like wars ect, or take in more money through higher taxes. We must never ever let the US treasury run dry even if we have to raise the debt ceiling and borrow money to keep it going. The full faith and confidence in the American people is directly linked to our flawless history of paying for the things we buy. If we were to default on a payment, it would stain our image, our national credit rating (which would cause it to be more expensive to borrow money), and plunge the world in to an economic depression.

We are the last super power, though China is a rising threat. If we are to preserve American exceptionalism itself, then we need to pay our bills on time - every time.

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Well said and I agree with what you are saying, BUT.....

It does not appear that the government is paying the bill, it seems like they are just borrowing more. Much like someone who transfers credit card balances from one card to another. Eventually that will catch up to you.

Seems as though our debt ratio is getting out of hand. You made a good effort to explain yourself but you totally avoided the question.

How much did Bush spend? How much has Obama spent?

Seems to me that Obama isn't doing a very good job with his wars. He has no mission for Afghanistan, and now he is messing around with Libya. There is still a large amount of troops in Iraq too.

You brought it up... You know the 7 increases... So you would have to know the answer to these questions in order to be making the statements above.

At what point do you have to say "Hey 17 Trillion dollars is a lot of cash, maybe I better stop borrowing". Obama campaigned telling people he was well aware of our national debt and the poor economy, so he would have to know these request go against his own promises.



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SELLC wrote:

Well said and I agree with what you are saying, BUT.....

It does not appear that the government is paying the bill, it seems like they are just borrowing more. Much like someone who transfers credit card balances from one card to another. Eventually that will catch up to you.

That's a very good analogy Rex, that's exactly what we're doing.  We haven't missed a payment yet though in the entire history of our country, and the world economy depends on us keeping it up.

Seems as though our debt ratio is getting out of hand. You made a good effort to explain yourself but you totally avoided the question.

The government takes in about 3 trillion dollars every year in income (give or take).  Our national debt is 14.3 trillion.   Essentially that means our debt is 5 times our earnings.  Genrerally bankers frown upon giving somebody a 30 year mortgage for an amount more than 3 or 4 times one's earnings, but the US government has the power to tax, and isn't limited to a 90 year lifespan like we mortals, so hopefully that puts things in perspective.  Though the dollar amount of our debt has never been higher than it is now, we actually have had much more debt in the past as a percentage of our national gross domestic product.  Right now we're operating at a debt of about 85% of GDP, but during World War 2 we had to take on debt well over 100% of GDP.

How much did Bush spend? How much has Obama spent?

Google it, I'm tired of doing your research for you.  And keep in mind that you can't necessarly pin the blame for spending on whomever happens to be in office at the time, because sometimes the policys of prior administrations can be costly LONG after they have left office.

Seems to me that Obama isn't doing a very good job with his wars. He has no mission for Afghanistan, and now he is messing around with Libya. There is still a large amount of troops in Iraq too.

I wish we were out of Iraq and Afghanistan too, I'm undecided on Libya though.  Unlike the other two, there is very broad support from other countries in the Libya action, so we're not footing the entire bill, and we're helping to avoid a genocide and assisting the rebels in taking out somebody who actually did attack American citizens.

You brought it up... You know the 7 increases... So you would have to know the answer to these questions in order to be making the statements above.

At what point do you have to say "Hey 17 Trillion dollars is a lot of cash, maybe I better stop borrowing". Obama campaigned telling people he was well aware of our national debt and the poor economy, so he would have to know these request go against his own promises.

We must get out of the recession before we can worry about cutting our debt.  Government spending is very stimulative, and to stop it now could cause a double dip recession that would only make our debt crisis worse in the long run.  We must be more analytical, and less reactionary.


 

 



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PowerStroker wrote:
SELLC wrote:

Well said and I agree with what you are saying, BUT.....

It does not appear that the government is paying the bill, it seems like they are just borrowing more. Much like someone who transfers credit card balances from one card to another. Eventually that will catch up to you.

That's a very good analogy Rex, that's exactly what we're doing.  We haven't missed a payment yet though in the entire history of our country, and the world economy depends on us keeping it up.

The world economy? Wake up PowerStroker! The world is dying to see us default. That's you problem PowerStroker, you don't understand that much like us, the rest of the world want's to rule also.

Seems as though our debt ratio is getting out of hand. You made a good effort to explain yourself but you totally avoided the question.

The government takes in about 3 trillion dollars every year in income (give or take).  Our national debt is 14.3 trillion.   Essentially that means our debt is 5 times our earnings.  Genrerally bankers frown upon giving somebody a 30 year mortgage for an amount more than 3 or 4 times one's earnings, but the US government has the power to tax, and isn't limited to a 90 year lifespan like we mortals, so hopefully that puts things in perspective.  Though the dollar amount of our debt has never been higher than it is now, we actually have had much more debt in the past as a percentage of our national gross domestic product.  Right now we're operating at a debt of about 85% of GDP, but during World War 2 we had to take on debt well over 100% of GDP.

Listen to what you are saying PowerStroker! It's absolute CRAZY talk! We are not in the middle of a "WORLD WAR". Bush has been out of office now for a very long time, and Obama used a fake recession to worry people into voting for him, now Obama wants to increase the debt? I don't think so. Time for Obama to put up or shut up.

How much did Bush spend? How much has Obama spent?

Google it, I'm tired of doing your research for you.  And keep in mind that you can't necessarly pin the blame for spending on whomever happens to be in office at the time, because sometimes the policys of prior administrations can be costly LONG after they have left office.

I know you are full of shit when it comes to the statements you make PowerStroker. If you don't wish to back up your claims that Bush raised the national debt 7 times then it's no skin off my nose. It's quite clear why you don't want to provide the proof, because it does not exist! Much like Obama's long form birth certificate. Hell he could have been born in a toilet for all you know. Truth of the matter is not even OBAMA really knows how or where he was born. So there!

Seems to me that Obama isn't doing a very good job with his wars. He has no mission for Afghanistan, and now he is messing around with Libya. There is still a large amount of troops in Iraq too.

I wish we were out of Iraq and Afghanistan too, I'm undecided on Libya though.  Unlike the other two, there is very broad support from other countries in the Libya action, so we're not footing the entire bill, and we're helping to avoid a genocide and assisting the rebels in taking out somebody who actually did attack American citizens.

Pffft... Libya was nothing compared to Saddam's Iraq. You liberals are so fucking ignorant! When you get a bunch of nations fighting together what ends up happening is everyone starts fighting with each other.

You brought it up... You know the 7 increases... So you would have to know the answer to these questions in order to be making the statements above.

At what point do you have to say "Hey 17 Trillion dollars is a lot of cash, maybe I better stop borrowing". Obama campaigned telling people he was well aware of our national debt and the poor economy, so he would have to know these request go against his own promises.

We must get out of the recession before we can worry about cutting our debt.  Government spending is very stimulative, and to stop it now could cause a double dip recession that would only make our debt crisis worse in the long run.  We must be more analytical, and less reactionary.

Spoken like a true numb-skull. We have to get out of DEBT before we can expect the recession to past. Getting ourselves into more debt to ease the pain of the recession is just the building blocks of the great American Bankruptcy, which when it happens will make a recession look like a holiday. Maybe that's why Trump is considering running for President, because he knows this country is headed for Bankruptcy. The things you say make no sense whatsoever PowerStroker. If we do not worry about cutting our debt we will always be in a recession.


 

 

 

 



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PowerStroker wrote:

We must get out of the recession before we can worry about cutting our debt.  Government spending is very stimulative, and to stop it now could cause a double dip recession that would only make our debt crisis worse in the long run.  We must be more analytical, and less reactionary.


So tell me... Obama sending Libya rebels $25,000,000.00 your idea of being stimulative? Many claim that some of these rebels have ties to terrorist organizations. How is spending/giving $25,000,000.00 to Libya rebels going to help improve our situation?

No PowerStroker, it's clear these un-wise spenders need to be cut off. I can think of a lot of things 25 million would do for the nation.

 

 



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25 Million is nothing to the federal government. They could probably dig that out of their couch cushions, and yes, sending them a check is a lot cheaper than putting our boots on the ground.

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$25,000,000.00 is nothing?

You heard it ladies and gentlemen! PowerStroker says 25 million is nothing!

I don't know if you are aware of this or not, but the Government is almost broke PowerStroker. They are taking out loans to pay for things. I think the magic number is $14 trillion... It got that way because people like you thought $25,000,000.00 was nothing.

And your statement about paying $25 million to keep from having to put troops on the ground is a classic Democrat cop-out. It's nice to know that when Democrats are in charge they will give away $25 million to any hole in the wall country to avoid having to send in troops.  Maybe the Democrats should not start what they can not finish.... What about the billions that have been given to Afghanistan? What do we have to show for that money? Hell we even have troops on the ground there.

Seems like we are being spread thin, and your Democratic base was within hours of a government shut down not long ago. You do realize that the troops you speak of almost went un-paid don't you? So much for that sofa full of money.



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I wish George W would have handed out 25 million to somebody instead of putting boots on the ground in Afghanistan to the tune of several hundred BILLION dollars... Oh well, that's water under the bridge I guess.

With the US population now at 310,000,000 your share of the 25 Million comes to a whopping 8 cents. If 8 cents is enough to get your blood pressure up, I'll pay your share for you just because I'm a nice guy.

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PowerStroker wrote:

I wish George W would have handed out 25 million to somebody instead of putting boots on the ground in Afghanistan to the tune of several hundred BILLION dollars... Oh well, that's water under the bridge I guess.

With the US population now at 310,000,000 your share of the 25 Million comes to a whopping 8 cents. If 8 cents is enough to get your blood pressure up, I'll pay your share for you just because I'm a nice guy.


 Several hundred billion dollars? C'mon PowerStroker! Besides I'd rather see a hundred billion dollars paid to our own troops who live in the US than $25,000,000.00 given away to people in another country that will turn on us the moment the power changes hands.

Since you are willing to pick up my 8 cents, would you also please pick up the tab for the remaning $14,000,000,000,000.00, while you are at it please cover my kids and wife's portion too, and their kids and families portion. 

So let's do the math here. $14,000,000,000,000.00 dollars devided by 310,000,000 people = $45,161.00 is the price tag they are putting on an American life, young and old.

Now take $45,161 and times that by 4 (Me and the family) and you have $180,644.00 please send the check out as soon as possible PowerStroker.

I SAY THE DEBT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN CARE OF RIGHT FUCKING NOW! I DO NOT WANT THE DOLLAR AMOUNT ON MY HEAD OR MY FRIENDS OR FAMILIES HEADS INCREASING.  

Do you have $45,161.00 in liquid (GOLD) to pay off the debt on your own head right now PowerStroker? If not I suggest you shut the fuck up and focus on what it means to let your representatives spend like drunken sailors.



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In fact I think just about everything should be cut until such time as we are no longer in a deficit. If we have a $14,000,000,000,000.00 surplus then yes, $25,000,000.00 would be sofa change. As it stands right now PowerStroker our government does NOT have a surplus and is running in the RED and will be approaching the limits.

No PowerStroker, war is expensive! But if we are going to war and not collecting from the nations that we re-build then that is a problem as well. No amount of money will bring back the people that died, so really it just comes down to money aka power.

Please read the "What is money" thread in the V8 Cafe. It would seem man kind really is our own worst enemy. The show must go on but the people that are spending money in Washington are not doing it in a productive way. We are not seeing a return on our investments, or maybe we are and that money is being squandered. Either way we are not operating in a surplus which is not a good thing.

I really don't see how this issue could be considered complex. It's very simple math with very big numbers. Obama must think all of us Americans are STUPID.  



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I'll pick up your 8 cents on this specific Obama issue. I'm not going to foot your share of what George racked up for us, sorry bub, your voting record is responsible for that debt.

I highly doubt Al Gore would have gone on such expensive war profiteering ventures for his defense industry buddies... He didn't have any, his buddies were enviornmentalists - a much cheaper hobby.

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But you were just saying that the debt limit must be raised! 



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Yes I was, and it does need to be raised so we can continue to afford sending cash payments to foreign rebels and stuff, not to mention preventing the street you live on from being forclosed upon by China and making you pay a toll every time you back out of your driveway.

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Other people might buy that line of BS but not I.



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August 2nd 2011...

What do you think is going to happen?



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Republicans will cave.

I don't say that because I think they're chicken. I say it because they are in the pockets of Wall Street, and Wall Street is terrified of the prospect of the world economy blowing up in such a way that if it ever is rebuilt, America will no longer be a cornerstone of it.

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I don't know... They are already talking about making interest only payments until such time as someone budges.

Between interest only payments and re-mortaging the USA for a few more trillion it sure sounds a lot like what got us into this mess. I think we need to collect from other sources like I mentioned above, put some teeth on what it means to have Americans fight for your freedoms.

Between Iran, Pakistan, China and India there needs to be a clear message sent that we are not spending money without a return on our investment. It's the only way PowerStroker because we wont be leaving that region for a very long time. If none of the candidates have the balls to collect Americans can elect me for President. I'd save America ALL KINDS of cash because by the time I got done making them people pay there would be no way in hell I'd step foot over-seas for any reason.



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So you want to threaten countries in the middle east by telling them we wont invade them unless they promise to pay us back for the expenses incurred by doing so?

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You got it all wrong...

If we have to invade your country because it has become over-run by a terrorist orginazation then YES, your new government will be responsible for paying for such services otherwise we should not bother wasting any time, money or resources.  It's not a bad deal providing they make something of what we help them accomplish. And even if they don't, they still owe us the money.



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It might be a good idea to let the people of whatever country we invade vote on whether they accept the deal you laid out. Maybe they'd rather live with their terrorist dictator than pay us a couple trillion to get rid of him.

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PowerStroker wrote:

It might be a good idea to let the people of whatever country we invade vote on whether they accept the deal you laid out. Maybe they'd rather live with their terrorist dictator than pay us a couple trillion to get rid of him.


 LOL!

Name one terrorist dictator that allowed their people to "Vote" on things like "Who" the dictator is, or how long they stay in power.... LOL...LOL....ROTFL

Yeah Okay... Next! 



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Well, if you're demanding payment from the people you liberated, without asking them if they first accept such a deal, isn't that just trading one dictator for another in their eyes?

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Trading one dictator for another? Now that's just crazy talk!

That might be the case if we took over their country, but as it stands they hold elections and form a new government where the people choose who their leader is.



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And then their newly elected leader can levy enormous taxes on all of the newly "liberated" citizens to the point where if they spent their country's entire GDP for a decade, it might be enough to pay us back for our expenses.

Do you realize the entire output economic output of Afghanistan... Not just their profit margin, but their ENTIRE economic output for a year, amounts to what we spend there in a couple months?

Do you realize one of the largest segments of their economy is the production of poppy for illegal narcotics?

Just imagine how much more illegal drugs they will have to produce and sell to the world in order to pay us back.

I wonder if you're going to ask them to reimburse us for their part in our drug war expenses?

Have you ever taken one of your thoughts, and followed it to it's logical conclusion???

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PowerStroker wrote:

And then their newly elected leader can levy enormous taxes on all of the newly "liberated" citizens to the point where if they spent their country's entire GDP for a decade, it might be enough to pay us back for our expenses.

But it's okay for American families to pay enormous taxes for a decade? Fuck you! That's the problem with you Tax and Spend liberals.... You would be totally fine throwing money at these nations. The idea that they would be forced to pay it back with interest (aka Increased taxes for them) makes you feel bad, meanwhile you feel absolutely no pitty for jacking up tax rates for Americans! What kind of American are you PowerStroker? If we spend all this money on these nations without getting our investment back, plus a profit, then WE will end up being taxed enormous amounts... Your idiot friends are currently trying to increase taxes, while the GOP is telling them to fuck off. I'd much rather these citizens of various nations that we have to help pay the increased taxes than my fellow Americans.

Do you realize the entire output economic output of Afghanistan... Not just their profit margin, but their ENTIRE economic output for a year, amounts to what we spend there in a couple months?

BULLSHIT! Afghanistan is known to have trillions of dollars worth of resources in their ground! More than enough to pay us AND allow them to live like kings! The only problem is the region is so unstable no company in it's right mind would spend the cash setting up to mine it. So the shit just sits there while we waste money trying to get the place stable enough to where business will start investing. When these businesses invest it will also bring jobs and increased revenues for taxes, sales, and everything that goes with industry! We have to ensure we get our cut otherwise we are WASTING MONEY.

Do you realize one of the largest segments of their economy is the production of poppy for illegal narcotics?

So what! That's only because Afghanistan has a weak and corrupt government. They could easily root out most all the illegal narcotics but they weren't. Sure now that the U.S. is there were burning up the poppy fields, but unless their government gets respectable people running the country business is not going to invest and the only jobs will be growing and processing illegal narcotics! However PowerStroker, if we help them it's going to cost them what we spend plus interest. Bottom line! Americans SHOULD NOT BE PAYING INCRESED TAXES FOR THESE PEOPLE WITHOUT RETURNS! 

Just imagine how much more illegal drugs they will have to produce and sell to the world in order to pay us back.

No PowerStroker, just imagine how much more money they could make by becoming a real nation and performing services the entire world could use. They could pay us back in short order and even live like kings without the drugs! Hell if they cleaned up their acts they could process their poppy plants to sell to big name pharmaceutical companies.

I wonder if you're going to ask them to reimburse us for their part in our drug war expenses?

No PowerStroker... It all comes down to the fact Afghanistan has potential but there greedy corrupt leaders are holding the nation back. That's why I say they must pay for our services, and trust me when I say they have the fucking money to pay us, they just rather Americans pay their way... I am here to say fuck that! And fuck any tax and spend liberal that says otherwise.

Have you ever taken one of your thoughts, and followed it to it's logical conclusion???

PowerStroker you fail to take your thoughts to a logical conclusion, and that's your problem. You have no problems raising taxes for Americans yet you get all sympathetic when it comes to taxing others for American services. Get your head right PowerStroker!


 



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A middle-aged loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless - in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

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UNSTOPPABLE!

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How about option C... Not start big expensive wars in the first place. Al Qaida could have been knocked off with an increase in intelligence and targeted special operations. It didn't require more than a hundred thousand American boots on the ground there. That way nobody would have to pay for this bullshit.

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Well maybe the government will keep that in mind the next time around but as it stands we have had some expensive wars. Someone has to pay... Might as well be the people we had to save from their own government. My only question is who is going to save us from ours? Keep increasing the debt and we are going to get sold down the river.

It is ignorant to think borrowing money to pay off our bills is a good idea! The cuts need to happen! Screw this whole idea of increasing taxes! How about we just cut the pay of the people who got us in this mess? Hell let's fire them!



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A middle-aged loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless - in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

LET'S GO BRANDON!

 



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Here we are, a decade later...

Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?

 



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A middle-aged loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless - in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

LET'S GO BRANDON!

 



FAR BEYOND DRIVEN

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SELLC wrote:

Well maybe the government will keep that in mind the next time around, but as it stands, we have had some expensive wars... Someone has to pay... Might as well be the people we had to save from their own government. My only question is who is going to save us from ours ?... Keep increasing the debt and we are going to get sold down the river.

It is ignorant ( read f***ing idiotic ) to think borrowing money to pay off our bills is a good idea ! The cuts need to happen ! Screw this whole idea of increasing taxes ! How about we just cut the pay of the people who got us in this mess ?... Hell let's fire them!


 

Well said !!! But don't forget that politicians & bankers are controlled, & place-holders only for the term of their "corporate" employment...

The US-of-A needs to rid itself of the private corporation that is the Federal Reserve Banking Cartel...It's all you need to do, & then find some decent honest people to run-the-country, not run-with-the-ball...

Better still, get into CE-5, meet our friends, & leave the lies & slavery behind ;) !

 



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__________________

A middle-aged loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless - in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

LET'S GO BRANDON!

 



FAR BEYOND DRIVEN

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SELLC wrote:


 

LOL !!! That's about it too !!! Though unfortunately, because we've been shooting & killing our visitors for so long, they won't appear like that. That's why it's important to watch Dr.Greer's films, so y'all get to know what to expect ;) !



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"Only an alert & knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial & military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods & goals, so that security & liberty may prosper together".    Dwight D.Eisenhower.



Veteran User

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SELLC wrote:

Here we are, a decade later...

Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?

 


 SSDD - same shit different decade



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FAR BEYOND DRIVEN

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LOL !!!

This article might put a smile on some folks faces, though I tend to think both parties have issues...

www.counterpunch.org/2021/11/05/is-this-the-end-of-the-unreformable-democratic-party/

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"Only an alert & knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial & military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods & goals, so that security & liberty may prosper together".    Dwight D.Eisenhower.

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