I must have listened to loony left wing nuts violently scream at the top of their lungs that Bush was a war criminal for waging war with Iraq for years! Even though Bush had the backing of Americans and congress some people still went out on that limb to say he was in the wrong for going to war.
Fast-Forward to today... On Sunday 6-19-2011 the Obama administration will be in violation of the WPR (War Powers Resolution) for being at war with another country (Libya) for more than 90 days without congressional approval. The Obama administration claims that since the war effort is being waged under the guise of NATO that it's not considered Hostile warfare. They come to this conclusion because they feel the country is not a threat and were just bombing the daylights out of Libya and not taking any real fire.
I myself find this rather ironic that someone like Obama and his Democrat base seem to have this double standard whereas they seem to THINK they can bitch piss and moan about something, then turn around and do it themselves with impunity.
I say it's time to cut the money flow off. We don't need another mission less war like the one that is currently going on in Afghanistan. Furthermore if all the efforts in Afghanistan were really to capture Osama Bin Laden then it's safe to say they are off the beaten path considering Osama was killed in Pakistan. But it's okay if the Democrats were wrong about Afghanistan, because Bush went to war over WMD's in Iraq, only by the time we got there all of the WMD's were used on the Kurds and they were dead and buried. Since they were already dead it did not matter, and many ignorant Democrats will tell you today that there were no WMD's in Iraq, just dead Kurds.
Another nice little Democratic double standard is the cost of Fuel today, at some times higher than when Bush was in office... Yet we still have the hypocritical Democratic mantra back then that claimed higher fuel cost were because of the Bush family oil dynasty, which in case you are a Democrat or been under a rock for 3 years, Bush is no longer the President and gas prices are pushing higher and higher.
Yep... Sure sounds like them Democrats are well on their way to creating lots of new problems for Republicans to solve at the tax payers expense.
-- Edited by SELLC on Friday 17th of June 2011 08:53:17 PM
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
Bin Laden was killed by troops under direct orders of a Democratic administration.
Fuel prices are high due to speculation resulting from Republican success in de-regulating Wall St.
How many American troops do we have in Libya exactly? Oh yeah, none. We are providing logistical support for NATO at this point and have none of our own boots on the ground there. I wouldn't call that a war, more like logistical support for a NATO military action, which, by the way has prevented the genocide of hundreds of thousands of Libyans. Yeah the US House of Representitaves is pissy about it, but to say that Obama is in violation of the War Powers Act is a bit of a stretch.
So because of this NATO guise you think the President does not need to get the backing of congress before engaging in war? I am sure that the people who live near these area's that get carpet bombed might feel otherwise. How many tomahawk missiles have you witnessed blowing shit up there in Minnesota? I would wager to say none, unless it was on TV. If there were it would be considered an act of war! So how can you say we are not at war with Libya? Because they are not able to fight back? Are you telling me that US aircraft paid with US funds shooting US bombs are no longer US when they slap a NATO sticker on it? Interesting.
So now this idea that drone aircraft launching bombs is not considered war either? Are you fricking for real? What happens when China or India build a shit load of droan aircraft and then decide they don't like our current leader and start bombing our nations military and government buildings? Don't you think that would be considered war?
The War Powers Resolution is there to keep our President from starting wars without our support. Things that are being done in Libya could have consequences that lead to more wars with other people. It's a war in Libya PowerStroker, do not kid yourself. Bush had to get his approval from congress for war, I think Obama should follow the proper procedures and the fact his cronies were not on top of it should not be an excuse. It's this idea that the Obama administration wants to take us to war without congressional approval that makes me wonder if Obama can be entrusted with a second term.... A second term in which he would no longer need to cater to his approval ratings and carry on with an agenda of gawd knows what.
Obama knows something is up... After all he went golfing with two Republicans today. I must admit that I don't usually see people wear all black when golfing... oh... but it looked good on him though :rolleyes:
-- Edited by SELLC on Sunday 19th of June 2011 01:54:28 AM
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
Well, The US has signed treaties with NATO... Treaties that were ratified by congress that say the US is obligated to intervene in any attack on any other NATO nation. The only law in this land higher than a ratified treaty, is the Constitution itself. Congress has the power to ammend the Constitution if they really want to, but untill they do, they can shut the fuck up.
Well, The US has signed treaties with NATO... Treaties that were ratified by congress that say the US is obligated to intervene in any attack on any other NATO nation. The only law in this land higher than a ratified treaty, is the Constitution itself. Congress has the power to ammend the Constitution if they really want to, but untill they do, they can shut the fuck up.
Regadless of what treaties with NATO have been signed it's not a free pass to wage war without congressional approval. To intervene would suggest that it is "Short" and "Swift". In this case the mission has gone on for over 90 days and thus back some 60 days ago the Obama administration should have been working to get this congressional approval.
No one is going to shut the fuck up here PowerStroker, in fact it will be quite the opposite. Suggesting that Congress should ammend the Constitution to correct the lack of proper procedure on the Obama Administrations part is not only laugable, it's just plain ignorant! I expected nothing less from you PowerStroker!
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
We are CONSTANTLY supporting NATO. Last I heard the US provides a quarter of all Nato funding and equipment, this is an ongoing thing which is exactly what congress ratified long before Obama ever took office. So exactly what is different now that NATO happens to be doing some business in Libya these days? The answer is NOTHING so long as no US soldiers are on the ground there. If Obama put US soldiers on the ground in Libya, then certainly he would eventually need to consult with congress. As it stands right now however, NATO is calling the shots there, and the US House of Representitaves doesn't get to micro-manage NATO... Not now, not ever. And if NATO asks for some aditional logistical support from the US in the form of unmanned drones or some cruise missiles, then President Obama is well within his right as Commander in Chief of the US military to order such logistical support so long as he doesn't go above and beyond the military's budget in the process of doing so.
Republicans currently hold control over the House of Representitaves. If they actually believed that Obama was operating outside the law, they would be holding impeachment hearings right now. But they know he hasn't actually violated any laws, they also know they can use false stories like this to get low information voters like you all worked up though.
Hussein never attacked the United States yet you couldn't get in to a war with him fast enough. Gaddafi actually attacked the United States and you don't want to do anything about it?
I'll bet If McCain won the election and was doing the same thing Obama is, you wouldn't care whatsoever. It's not because Obama is black though, it's because he's from Kenya right?
We are CONSTANTLY supporting NATO. Last I heard the US provides a quarter of all Nato funding and equipment, this is an ongoing thing which is exactly what congress ratified long before Obama ever took office. So exactly what is different now that NATO happens to be doing some business in Libya these days?
Well then tell me exactly when the last time was that NATO engaged in a military opperation that lasted more than 90 days with American involvement without the blessing of congress. I wouldn't want a Republican or a Democrat to be able to circumvent congress under the guise of NATO when it comes to war. Do you?
The answer is NOTHING so long as no US soldiers are on the ground there.
Were there any soldiers on the ground in Hiroshima and Nagasaki back when we nuked Japan? How about when they bombed Pearl Harbor? Were there any Jap troops on American soil? Was the bombing of Pearl Harbor consider an act of war by the US?
If Obama put US soldiers on the ground in Libya, then certainly he would eventually need to consult with congress. As it stands right now however, NATO is calling the shots there, and the US House of Representitaves doesn't get to micro-manage NATO... Not now, not ever.
Well then it's a damn good thing we have the W.P.R. then. NATO isn't looking out for American's best interest. I don't wish to think of NATO as managing anything America does or does not do. It's an alliance, and if the alliance is being used to circumvent the checks and balances of our government then our support in the NATO mission should be withdrawn immediately until such time as the Obama administration gets the proper congressional approval and sets fourth to the American people exactly what his mission is. I won't hold my breath on that one though.
And if NATO asks for some aditional logistical support from the US in the form of unmanned drones or some cruise missiles, then President Obama is well within his right as Commander in Chief of the US military to order such logistical support so long as he doesn't go above and beyond the military's budget in the process of doing so.
Well may I remind you PowerStroker, that Obama is technically OVER HIS BUDGET and the deficit has reached the ceiling. In fact come August 2nd the government will be maxed out on credit. So could you please explain how the hell your statement above holds water?
Republicans currently hold control over the House of Representitaves. If they actually believed that Obama was operating outside the law, they would be holding impeachment hearings right now. But they know he hasn't actually violated any laws, they also know they can use false stories like this to get low information voters like you all worked up though.
No PowerStroker, Republicans are civilized people. They will give Obama warnings WELL IN ADVANCE and wait for him to arrogantly disregard them. When Republicans go to war they get congressional approval, notify the people of the region of our intentions, allow the innocent men, women and children who do not wish to be subjected to warfare the opportunity to leave; then comes the shock and awe. That's the proper way of doing things... The "Respectable" way.
Does the idea that the full faith of the United States Government will be downgraded come August 2nd work me up? Yes it does.
Does it work me up that Obama does not feel blowing the shit out of another country (Libya) is not considered war, and that he has exceeded the amount of time he can get involved in such operations without congressional approval/budgeting? Yes it does.
Does it work me up when I hear about our nation invading another sovereign country (Pakistan) to capture an enemy un-benounced? Mind you it was unannounced to everyone except for the Obama administrations inner circle. Yes it does, except in the case of Osama he was executed on the spot, no judge, and no jury. While I feel it was a fitting punishment for a man that was responsible for many American deaths, I cringe at what kind of image this paints for America. At least with Saddam we turned him over to a court system and his own people carried out the execution. Like I said, "civilized".... Not cowardly. Ironic in Saddams case.
Hussein never attacked the United States yet you couldn't get in to a war with him fast enough.
It was Hussein that tried to have Bush Sr. killed. You don't consider that an attack on the United States?
Gaddafi actually attacked the United States and you don't want to do anything about it?
Did he really attack the United States PowerStroker? Because I know awhile back you were mixed up about exactly where Lockerbie was located. In case you forgot Lockerbie is located in Scotland. It does not change the fact that lots of American lives were lost, and yes Gaddafi is a piece of shit. How is what we are doing now any different? Obama's rouge mission has carried on for over 90 days now and many innocent people have died. They could have died without our involvement too. If and when Obama does kill Gaddafi do you really think the Libyans will love us? Or do you think they will be glad to see us go like the people in Iraq and Afghanistan?
I'll bet If McCain won the election and was doing the same thing Obama is, you wouldn't care whatsoever.
This is probably because McCain would have gotten on TV and gave us all the "My Fellow Americans" speech, explained what he wanted to do, how he was going to do it and got America behind him, along with the ever important congressional approval. So no, I probably would not have cared.
It's not because Obama is black though, it's because he's from Kenya right?
Playing the ole' race card again huh? Do you guys think that card will still be trump in 2012? I doubt it and just to prove it to you here is my responce to the statement above where you said "Republicans currently hold control over the House of Representitaves. If they actually believed that Obama was operating outside the law, they would be holding impeachment hearings right now." -
No PowerStroker, I am sure they are just giving him a little more "Rope", because they damn sure aren't giving him any more money!
DECLINED!
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
Do you think the reason Congress approved money for the Libya mission yet did not approve military action was a way of giving more rope to an administration that seems to be out-of-control?
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
Yeah sure, but why don't we call Rod Blagojevich and see what he has to say... I'm pretty sure he's about ready to start singing right about now..
And one more question.... How many people are going to vote for Obama in 2012 when he is working to increase taxes? I mean people have to know that tax increases won't JUST be for the rich... I wonder what kind of double standard reasoning he will give for that.... Here is what I imagine him saying;
"We need change! Lot's and lot's of change! Just a few trillion dollars worth... Sure I will have to raise everyone's taxes but how else can my family go on an African Safari? How else will I be able to jet around the world under the guise of business? It's Bush's fault we need to raise the deficit because he didn't give me enough stimulus money the first time!"
I imagine that about sums up his 2012 campaign.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
Fuk NATO, usless bitches suck up our money and do NOTHING.
Powerstroke. There are conflicting stories on BinLaden. He had bad kidney disease way back, Some think he died earlier. I don't believe all conspiracy theories but why was he disposed of at sea? Why did the Seal team say "Kinda looks like him only much younger"? Makes one wonder. I do
I don't have reason to doubt Bin Laden was killed by Seal Team 6, Al Qaeda even admitted as much... Plus the size of his porn stash was way bigger than anything the CIA could plant on short notice lol.
Hey Rex, mind if I ask why threads from 7 years ago or longer are now being resurrected regularly now? Are we trying to re-litigate things now that you have help on your side? How's about you get some of your liberal buddies to show up and give me a hand, Rastus and I can't do it alone.
It's not that I mind though, but I'm kind of partial to the thread about my famous quotes, it's way more educational if you feel like bumping an oldie but goodie for further review.
Hey Rex, mind if I ask why threads from 7 years ago or longer are now being resurrected regularly now? Are we trying to re-litigate things now that you have help on your side? How's about you get some of your liberal buddies to show up and give me a hand, Rastus and I can't do it alone.
It's not that I mind though, but I'm kind of partial to the thread about my famous quotes, it's way more educational if you feel like bumping an oldie but goodie for further review.
I too have missed the Ying / Yang... I apologize greatly PowerStroker, I guess I failed to make them feel welcome.
Having learned about IAC and the Chealse Clinton connection I feel a whole lot better taking a guess why none of them have come here.
Obviously George Soros isn't going to pay his online crew to come to this site because it doesn't generate enough traffic.
I know that sounds ridiculous, but no more ridiculous than when Stan first told me Chealse Clinton was on the board for the parent company. I honestly thought he was kidding! He had to be kidding! That would be wrong on so many levels.
But guess what?
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
I don't have reason to doubt Bin Laden was killed by Seal Team 6, Al Qaeda even admitted as much... Plus the size of his porn stash was way bigger than anything the CIA could plant on short notice lol.
Hey Rex, mind if I ask why threads from 7 years ago or longer are now being resurrected regularly now? Are we trying to re-litigate things now that you have help on your side? How's about you get some of your liberal buddies to show up and give me a hand, Rastus and I can't do it alone.
It's not that I mind though, but I'm kind of partial to the thread about my famous quotes, it's way more educational if you feel like bumping an oldie but goodie for further review.
He could have been, I just don't know really. Good thing is, he's gone!
Powerstroker, we have been trying to get more liberals here. I don't know why they won't come. It takes both sides to have good conversation/debates.
