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Post Info TOPIC: Why are US Generals getting fired for calling a spade a spade?


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Why are US Generals getting fired for calling a spade a spade?


I was reading on Fox news that a US General was fired recently for calling out Afghanistan's in-excusable statement that they would back Pakistan in the even the US attacks them, despite Afghanistan getting billions in aid.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/11/04/us-general-fired-for-verbal-attack-on-karzai/?test=latestnews

I don't know what the hell strategy they got going where the current administration thinks its a good idea to coddle Afghanistan despite their disparaging remarks, yet fire a General for expressing his concern.

There have been other instances where Obama himself fired a Military commander over a Rolling Stone article. Seems when you work for the Obama administration you dont get the luxury of an opinion. More and more it seems like Obama is building a Nazi style "SS" coalition Army, where if you don't agree with him, you are unfit to do your job. Not a good sign.

Obama may have been on a roll the past few weeks, but this kind of thing really gives moment for pause. The more and more I think about it that Kharrazi guy looks a lot like Ben Bernanke. More and more Obama is looking less and less black, and more and more arab.

I am just glad there are people out there, like the recently fired General that is not afraid to call a spade a spade. It's just too bad he will probably be replaced with a Pro-Afghanistan General that will further weaken out position over there.



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So it's ok for a General to spout off to the press without clearing it with the White House, and possibly undermine US foreign policy.  But it's not ok for a General to give accurate testimony to Congress if it makes the President's war plans look bad?

New York Times

Washington

New Strategy Vindicates Ex-Army Chief Shinseki

Published: January 12, 2007

WASHINGTON, Jan. 11 After President Bush told the nation on Wednesday night that he was ordering a rapid increase of American forces in Iraq, Gen. Eric K. Shinseki was not among the retired officers to offer instant analysis on television.

Skip to next paragraph
Doug Mills/The New York Times

Chiefs of staff about to testify in 2003, from left: Adm. Vernon Clark, Navy; Gen. Michael Hagee, Marines; and Gen. Eric Shinseki, Army.

But the presidents new strategy, with its explicit acknowledgment that not enough troops had been sent to Iraq to establish control, was a vindication for General Shinseki, who as Army chief of staff publicly told Congress as much just before the war began in 2003.

First vilified, then marginalized by the Bush administration after those comments, General Shinseki retired and faded away, even as lawmakers, pundits and politicians increasingly cited his prescience.

We never had enough troops to begin with, Senator Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican, said just before the presidents televised address. A month or two ago we found out the Army is broken, and they agreed that General Shinseki was right.

Gen. John P. Abizaid, the departing commander of American forces in the Middle East, told Congress late last year, General Shinseki was right that a greater international force contribution, U.S. force contribution and Iraqi force contribution should have been available immediately after major combat operations.

In his prime-time address on Wednesday, even President Bush said the main reason past efforts to stabilize Baghdad had failed was that there were not enough Iraqi and American troops to secure neighborhoods that had been cleared of terrorists and insurgents.

The acknowledgment was far different from the harsh administration rebuttals after General Shinseki electrified Washington with his blunt warning that victory in Iraq would require more troops than were being deployed for the invasion.

He was the target of immediate rebuke from the Pentagon leadership, in particular from Donald H. Rumsfeld, then secretary of defense, and his deputy, Paul D. Wolfowitz. Mr. Wolfowitz dismissed the testimony as wildly off the mark.

Some civilians in government and military officers say General Shinsekis treatment intimidated other top officers.

It sent a very clear signal to the military leadership about how that kind of military judgment was going to be valued, said Kori Schake, the director for defense strategy on the National Security Council staff from 2002 to 2005, now a fellow at the Hoover Institution and a professor at West Point. So it served to silence critics just at the point in time when, internal to the process, you most wanted critical judgment.

General Shinseki has kept a strict public silence since retiring in June 2003 and would often say to his associates, I do not want to criticize while my soldiers are still bleeding and dying in Iraq.

He now splits his time between his suburban Washington home and his native Hawaii, consulting with academic organizations, private companies and military support groups. He declined to comment for this article.

This is a man who is totally loyal to the Army, which was his life, said David R. Gergen, director of the Center for Public Leadership at Harvards Kennedy School of Government. Mr. Gergen works with General Shinseki on the centers advisory board, and the general regularly meets with students there.

General Shinseki draws an enormous crowd, especially of former and active-duty military, said Mr. Gergen, who was an adviser to Presidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton. They hold General Shinseki in awe.

He has been very discreet in his comments about what happened, Mr. Gergen added. Just as he has been in public, he is reluctant in private to say anything that would disparage the commander in chief.

The general, who throughout his career was known for his selfless, or at least self-effacing, bearing, did not go before Congress on that day in February 2003 planning to stir things up. But he is also not one who backs down easily; he had risen to the top of the Army after surviving grievous injury in Vietnam, and under withering cross-examination by Senator Carl Levin, Democrat of Michigan, he spoke matter-of-factly.

Something on the order of several hundred thousand soldiers are probably, you know, a figure that would be required to stabilize Iraq after an invasion, he said.

Were talking about post-hostilities control over a piece of geography thats fairly significant, with the kinds of ethnic tensions that could lead to other problems, he added. And so it takes a significant ground force presence to maintain a safe and secure environment, to ensure that people are fed, that water is distributed, all the normal responsibilities that go along with administering a situation like this.

His comments brought to a boil long-simmering tensions with Mr. Rumsfeld, who had been scrubbing the war plans to reduce the number of invading troops. And they were politically explosive, coming less than a month before the start of the war, which proponents were saying confidently would be anything but a quagmire.

Former aides to the general said his estimate summarized back-of-the-envelope calculations but had been based on experiences as a commander in postwar Bosnia, where the United States sent 50,000 troops to quiet five million people, a population one-fifth that of Iraq. American troops in Iraq reached a peak of more than 160,000 in December 2005. There are now about 132,000.

General Shinseki was not fired for his comments, but his influence as a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff certainly was never the same. He retired as scheduled.

During a House Armed Services Committee hearing on Thursday, Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, was asked specifically why General Shinsekis recommendation of more troops had not been adopted, and he replied: General Shinseki was not advocating for that number as an answer. He gave that as a guesstimate of what it might take. So I just want to put that in historical context.

Some critics say General Shinseki should have spoken out more after his Senate testimony, and others ask why he did not resign to protest the war plan if he thought it would not assure victory. Even in retirement he declined to join the so-called generals revolt of retired officers calling for Mr. Rumsfeld to resign last year.

These days, Army officers are pointing to another instance of his impolitic remarks coming true years later.

In his retirement speech, General Shinseki warned against trying to carry out a 12-division strategy with a 10-division army, counsel that the Pentagons leaders rejected.

In his speech on Wednesday night, Mr. Bush vowed to increase the size of the active Army and Marine Corps, so that America has the armed forces we need for the 21st century. That, too, could be heard as an affirmation of the generals long-held view.



-- Edited by PowerStroker on Saturday 5th of November 2011 12:57:36 PM

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PowerStroker wrote:

So it's ok for a General to spout off to the press without clearing it with the White House, and possibly undermine US foreign policy.  But it's not ok for a General to give accurate testimony to Congress if it makes the President's war plans look bad?


Spoken like a true partisan HACK.

I expected nothing less and nothing more from you PowerStroker.



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PowerStroker wrote:

So it's ok for a General to spout off to the press without clearing it with the White House, and possibly undermine US foreign policy.  


What if the owner of your dealership wanted you fired because of your left leaning views that have been spouted off on various internet forums?

Would it be a joke then?

What if he bribed a Union boss and made sure you got fired for something that did not offer a severance of any kind?

Still laughing?

What if you REALLY had to work for a living like the people that own businesses?

What if you just took a step back and realized that a job is just that... A JOB! And that the REAL hatred you have for big business comes from them controlling every aspect of your life.

Do I need to make little airplane sounds while I spoon feed this to you?



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I'm a civilian Rex, I have more rights to be a loud mouth than our men and women in uniform who are sworn to obey the freely elected commander in chief.

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So you are saying that men and women who serve the country aren't entitled to a life of their own? That they no longer have the right to think freely? Because that's what you are saying.

No where in the article does it say the General disobeyed an order.



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I'm saying, that when they are current members of the US military, they should clear their press statements with the Pentagon. A General should clear it with the White House communication's staff, or at least the Secretary of Defense.

Ofcourse they are entitled to their own opinions as patriots defending our country. What they are not entitled to, is to undermine US foreign policy by spouting off their opinions while the world correctly sees them as doing things in America's name. It makes us all look bad, and professional soldiers should know better.

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PowerStroker wrote:

What they are not entitled to, is to undermine US foreign policy by spouting off their opinions while the world correctly sees them as doing things in America's name. It makes us all look bad, and professional soldiers should know better.


What is it that makes us all look bad? The fact this General spoke out about our country giving Afghanistan 11 billion dollars in aid, or the fact that the Afghanistan President said they would back Pakistan in the event our country declared war on them?

Seems to me this professional soldier DID know better, and thus the reason he spoke out.

Where was Osama Bin Laden hiding again? Was it Pakistan? Wasn't Pakistan collecting US aid also?

That being the case, it sure seems that Afghanistan is aligning itself with a country that not only harbors nuclear weapons, but also harbors terrorist. Yet we keep giving these nations BILLIONS of tax payer dollars?

Political hacks like yourself should be barred from any kind of serious discussions. It's people like YOU PowerStroker that have got this nation so fucked up with your bigoted mindset. You are off your hinges, I suggest laying off the Kool-Aid for awhile.



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Whether or not the General is correct and I agree with his sentiment or not is of no consequence, if stating his opinion to the press can undermine diplomatic efforts that he may not even be aware of.

A General should know better, and so should you.

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I suggest removing your head from your ass PowerStroker.

We are at WAR with Afghanistan you dumb shit! A missionless war might I add!

Diplomacy is not giving the enemy Billions in aid you dumb shit!



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We're not at war with Pakistan (yet), and there's probably diplomatic efforts under way to keep it that way. The last thing we need is some General spouting off about it without knowing what the State Department or the White House is up to. I actually agree with the General's opinion, but he was wrong to speak it without first clearing it with his boss.

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I am willing to bet this General tried to express his concerns, but after being shit on one too many times he took it to the REAL BOSSES OF THIS NATION.... THE PEOPLE!

I am quite sure he knew full well what the end result of his actions would be, and I feel the General was no longer interested in the corruption that is running rampid over there.

How can we have peace with a nation that harbored the 911 fugative and took money from us with on hand, and gave us lies with the other.

If you agree with the General then BE A MAN! Not some partisan hack with an agenda!



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I'm going to be a man by supporting the guy in the Oval Office which is the brain center through which all Federal Agencies ie: intelligence, military, state dept, ect was able to coordinate these resources in such a way to actually find and kill Bin Laden. I haven't got time for disgruntled Generals, and neither does President Obama. If the general feels "shit on one too many times", he shouldn't let the door hit him on the ass on the way out.

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PowerStroker wrote:

I'm going to be a man by supporting the guy in the Oval Office which is the brain center through which all Federal Agencies ie: intelligence, military, state dept, ect was able to coordinate these resources in such a way to actually find and kill Bin Laden.

Maybe Obama can organize another one of his black-op missions to take out the President of Iran? Because it's clear when it comes to Nukes and an out of control Iran Obama is happy with just slapping sanctions on them. Or maybe Israel will man up and take out Irans nuclear activities.

I haven't got time for disgruntled Generals, and neither does President Obama. If the general feels "shit on one too many times", he shouldn't let the door hit him on the ass on the way out.

I think you got it all wrong PowerStroker.. The General has said his piece, and will no longer be wasting his time promoting what appears to be bad policy.

You are such a hack PowerStroker! You are going to sit here and tell us all you support the Generals views, yet condemn him for the sole reason his statements show your hero is a less than flattering light? I always knew you were an empty uniform.

Now I know why Gerry does not waste time on politics, it's pointless trying to argue with bigoted partisan hacks. You would see America cut off it nose to spite its face. That mentality should be considered a form of treason!  


 



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So you're in favor of bringing back General Shenseki?

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Yeah, that's what I thought you hack.

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I think it's quite clear the General does not want the job anymore, and who can blame him?

Who wants to work as a "fall guy", which is exactly what this man realized he was being by staying silent.

I don't think this guy wants anything to do with screwing Americans, so he basically gave the world his notice, along with a nice fuck you to the current administration that would leave him holding the bag like the countless other people/companies before him.



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