Anthony Provenzano

gerryvz · Member

Why unions should be aggressively abolished

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

I do agree Gerry! Good teachers that inspire and teach the children should be paid more than the bad ones that do very little.

There is more to being a teacher than just showing up. Some teachers are just downright crooked, although I can't recall any in my district. Then again I was such a pain in the ass at that age I seriously doubt anyone would have failed me for fear that they might end up with me the next year.

Still... All in all bad teachers are only half the problem. Some kids are late bloomers and some enjoy school more than others. I think it takes a special teacher to engage the kids and build a relationship with them that makes for a good class atmosphere. Knowing the limits and names of each child and pushing each one to their level of talent is what churns out good students. Test are one thing, but there is a whole lot more to it than that.

Without doubt a bad teacher should not be able to hide behind a union. It's too many of these bad union workers that is going to spoil it for the rest of the good ones. It's a fine line I know, but something is going to have to give.

gerryvz · Member

I knew of male teachers in my junior high school in the late 70s who were messing around with students (not to mention other teachers). I hope that kind of stuff isn't tolerated anymore but it was in my district back in the day. Once every few years it would hit the news and the teacher would get bounced, but there were plenty of unreported cases of male teachers taking advantage of young females.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Your people just tried busting unions in Ohio, and last night you saw how working class people feel about it.

Gerry, you have a nice comfortable life. Why do you spend so much of it worrying about people who have less than you? Wouldn't you feel more fulfilled in the garage polishing your cars instead of watching Fox "news" ???

gerryvz · Member

Excuse me, I wish you'd call it by it's correct name .. it's "Faux News"

Someone's got to keep these liberals in check.

By the way I'm a HUGE believer in merit pay for the best teachers. For highly rated teachers, they should be paid wages that are head and shoulders above average or underperforming teachers. Just like the private sector.

In my jobs that I've worked for the past 15-20 years, if you don't perform, you don't get a raise. Pay increases and advancement are based on MERIT, not based on seniority or some pre-set track. If you work hard and do a good job, you will do fine.

Unions are just the opposite. They reward mediocrity and people just doing the minimum to get by, instead of incenting people to do the best they can. That's why I think unions are ant-capitalist.

You see, look at SELLC. If he doesn't work hard and make his customers happy, they won't come back and use him for his services, and his revenues will go down, and his family will starve.

But if SELLC worked for a union shop, he'd just go to work every day and drudge through it, knowing there was no benefit to making the customer happy because he'd still get the same pay whether he did or not, dictated by his union bosses. He'd know exactly where he was going to be career-wise in 3, 5, 10 years.

But with his current business, not unionized, you see that SELLC can advance his business through making the customer happy. The important thing is that he has the choice of what to do. If he decided to grow and expand his business, he can. Unions kill creativity and initiative in workers. Just like communist/socialist systems.

Why do you think South Korea is so much better off than North Korea?

-- Edited by gerryvz on Thursday 10th of November 2011 09:03:26 PM

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Because South Korea has a middle class.

I'm a little confused about something Gerry... You tout the free market, yet start a thread that says unions should be aggressively abolished. The free market is what brings us unions. A union simply allows for employees to organize to negotiate better pay, safety, and benefits. A union only comes in to a place of business if it is the will of a majority of employees to bring it in. Furthermore, a majority of employees can also vote the union out if it fails to perform. In essence, the suggestion that unions in general should be abolished, is the definition of what it is to be anti-democratic. It sounds like your view, is that democracy should only apply to customers and employers, and that workers shouldn't really have any rights. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm in a union shop, and I take enormous pride, both in what I do, but also how my customers feel about me. The man who owns this dealership owns 10 others of various makes. Of the 11 dealerships, we are the only union shop - and the most profitable of his many shops by the way. Furthermore, he just ends up applying the union pay scale that we negotiate, to all of his other non union shops, except we get a better health plan than the other guys. That kind of blows up your idea that being non union allows for advancement. We were a union shop prior to the current owner buying the place, but If the owner of my dealership wasn't just as hostile toward labor as the last guy, we would have at least considered voting them out. You see Gerry, Employee satisfaction matters too. Just as your free market theory allows for the survival of the fittest companies by way of customers voting with their feet - so too, can it spank hostile employers by way of dedicated tradespersons voting to organize.

Do you think the Massey coal mine would be a safer place without the union? The un-regulated free market didn't keep BP and Halliburton from soiling the Gulf of Mexico.

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Thursday 10th of November 2011 10:57:42 PM

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

While I don't agree with Unions, I do feel a freely elected Union is a benefit when it operates exclusively for it's employees. The mingling of unions in politics is to be considered no worse than business mingling in politics!

Unions get corrupt too! But never under any other President have I seen Unions get the snot kicked out of them more than under Obama! For example, GM and Chrysler employees got thrashed at the hands of Obama! They can't even strike!

Hell Fords couldn't even brag about not taking bail out money in one of their commercials because the Administration felt it would give Ford an un-fair advantage. WTF is that?

Shit you know the Unions getting the shit pounded out of them when the teamsters bust out with Jimmy Hoffa Jr! But there is one difference PowerStroker! Jimmy Hoffs Sr. was 100% for the Unions! He snubed his nose at JFK and his Administration, hell he even scratched the corner of his eye with his middle finger at the Administration! JH Jr. looked more like Obamas lap dog in Detroit than his old school father that put it ALL on the line for the Teamsters and their constituencies.

Face it PowerStroker, Obama putting the strangle hold on big business shoots labor unions in the foot. Hoffa Sr. knew that private business was better than government business for the workers. When the Government takes over a company they can void contracts, bend rules and the worker is left with a take it or find another job shitty contract without the ability to strike.

You might not think what I am saying is true, but look back in history, did you ever see Hoffa Sr. pandering to a president? Republican or Democrat?

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

SELLC wrote:
I do feel a freely elected Union is a benefit when it operates exclusively for it's employees. The mingling of unions in politics is to be considered no worse than business mingling in politics!

You are correct!

stoma · Member

WHERE IS HOFFA?????? HELLO?????? HELLLOOOOOO????????

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Good point Stoma!

Do you think it was Big business, the Union or the government that got to Hoffa Sr?

Some might ask "whats the difference"?

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

It was the mafia

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker wrote:
It was the mafia

Yes PowerStroker, everyone is quite confident that what happened to Hoffa Sr. was done by an organized group (mafia) of individuals.

Was that organized group of people from Big Business, The Union or the Government or just some random, nameless fringe radical group? That is the question PowerStroker.

Or are you trying to stereotype the "mafia" as some group of Italian's like in Scarface? Because the Mafia can allude to any nationality of people who commit organized crimes.

-- Edited by SELLC on Sunday 13th of November 2011 07:19:46 PM

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Well, I know he got in bed with a major organized crime outfit headed by a guy named Tony Pro - which sounds Italian to me. Certainly Tony probably had some legitimate businesses, but just like Gerry, even the legitimate stuff was bought with money of questionable origin.

The Corleone family got rich imorting olive oil, remember?

_________________________________________________________

Anthony Provenzano

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anthony Provenzano also known as Tony Pro (May 7, 1917 - December 12, 1988) was a Caporegime (or captain) in the Genovese crime family of New York City. Provenzano was known for his connections to Teamsters Union leader Jimmy Hoffa and President Richard Nixon^[1] due to Provenzano's position as an International Brotherhood of Teamsters vice president for Teamsters Local 560 in Union City, New Jersey.^[2]

[edit] Hoffa and Provenzano

With Hoffa's blessing, Provenzano used his position as Teamsters vice president to take union funds for his personal use. To solidify his support among the criminal elite, Hoffa had encouraged the Mafia's heavy-hitters who were involved with the union to use their locals as personal accounts. Hoffa and Provenzano were eventually jailed for their activities; their sentences at the federal prison in Lewisburg overlapped. The two initially were close allies, with the Capo exercising his rank at Lewisburg and demanding the loyalty of prisoners, which made him the major power within the prison. Provenzano provided Hoffa with protection, but their relationship soured after Hoffa was unable to secure a Teamsters loan for a restaurant he wanted to open. The two became enemies after Hoffa insulted Provenzano, telling him Its because of people like you that I got into trouble in the first place. But Provenzano would have the last laugh.

(After their sentences were over, the two allegedly had a violent confrontation during a chance meeting at an airport. In the book Desperate Bargain: Why Jimmy Hoffa Had to Die, Lester Velie wrote that Hoffa and Provenzano went at it with their fists, and Hoffa broke a bottle over Provenzanos head. Provenzano vowed he would retaliate against Hoffas grandchildren, saying Ill tear your heart out!)

Hoffa had been pardoned from prison by President Richard Nixon in 1971, allegedly after the payment of a large bribe from the Mafia, with the proviso that he could not engage in union activity. Provenzano was forbidden to engage in union activity for five years as part of his parole, though he remained a power inside the union. Hoffa opposed Provenzanos desire to assume his old post at Local 560 after his five-year exclusionary period was up, while "Tony Pro" was adamantly against Hoffa's intent to be reelected president the Teamsters. In the contest of wills, while Hoffa had the hearts of many of the union's rank and file members, Provenzano had the power of a Mafia capo.

In 1961, Local 560 Secretary-Treasurer Anthony Castellito travelled to Upstate New York to meet with Salvatore Sally Bugs Briguglio, a mob-connected loan shark. According to federal government reports, Briguglio allegedly murdered Castellito, taking the body back to New Jersey for disposal. Castellitos body was never found and reportedly was put through a tree shredder. Provenzano was in Florida at the time of Castellitos disappearance. On his return to New Jersey, Provenzano appointed Briguglio fill Castellito's position at Local 560, despite Briguglio's lack of official connection to the Teamster Union.

Interestingly, Provenzano was photographed golfing with Nixon within a year after Hoffa's disappearance, when Provenzano was being trumpeted by the media as Hoffa's nemesis who had done him in^{[citation needed]}. Local 560 eventually was put under government oversight, which financially constrained Provenzanos illegal operations. In 1978, Provenzano was convicted in the Castellito murder and sent to prison.

In 1985, Briguglio was identified as a prime suspect in Hoffa's disappearance in a 1985 Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) memo. Also named were Tony Pro Provenzano, Detroit Mafia capo Anthony "Tony Jack" Giacalone, Russell Bufalino (the boss of Northeastern Pennsylvania), Hoffa's adopted "son" Chuckie O'Brien, Briguglios brother Gabriel, and Stephen and Thomas Andretta, two brothers who were mob hitmen.

On December 12, 1988, Provenzano died of a heart attack in prison at age 71.

Tony Pro's grandnephew Danny Provenzano became a made-man and movie director and producer after building a successful printing company in New Jersey, he served a portion of a ten-year sentence for racketeering. Danny Provenzano made several guest appearances as Dannielle Staub's friend, confidant, and sometimes bodyguard on the second season of Bravo's The Real Housewives of New Jersey.

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Sunday 13th of November 2011 08:19:53 PM

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Interesting story PowerStroker.

Nice union you belong to by the way! Can't even imagine why people would ever think unions were corrupt.

After reading what you posted above it makes me wonder just how "free" these elections are that form unions at the workplace.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

"Hoffa had been pardoned from prison by President Richard Nixon in 1971, allegedly after the payment of a large bribe from the Mafia"

Speaking of corruption^^^

I've never had thugs come in and tell me how to vote.

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Sunday 13th of November 2011 10:12:01 PM

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker wrote:
I've never rat on the thugs that come in and tell me how to vote.

^^^ Fixed that for you PowerStroker ^^^

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Perhaps I can interest you in some cement shoes with which you can take a long walk off a short pier?

I can't envision Obama taking a mafia bribe, but your boy Nixon doesn't surprise me one bit.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker wrote:
Perhaps I can interest you in some cement shoes with which you can take a long walk off a short pier?
Trying to be Mafioso? C'mon ova-hee

I can't envision Obama taking a mafia bribe, but your boy Nixon doesn't surprise me one bit.
You are well known for your lack of vision PowerStroker, that's why you're Union/Democrat stock.

-- Edited by SELLC on Sunday 13th of November 2011 11:05:33 PM

stoma · Member

YAAAAAAAAAAAWN................ MORE SEWAGE COMING OUT OF REX'S MOUTH!!!!!!!! WHEN WILL THE EPA FINALLY DO SOMETHING????????????

OH AND FUCK HOFFA TOO!!!!!!!!!!! I KNOW THAT REX'S DADDY HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT!!!!!!!!

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

gerryvz wrote:
I knew of male teachers in my junior high school in the late 70s who were messing around with students (not to mention other teachers). I hope that kind of stuff isn't tolerated anymore but it was in my district back in the day. Once every few years it would hit the news and the teacher would get bounced, but there were plenty of unreported cases of male teachers taking advantage of young females.

Ironic as it may be I recently have been made aware of a mother that reported problems to a school teacher only to have the school call Child Protective Services in retaliation the next day! This was a Plymouth/Canton School here in Michigan!

Amazing how these sorts of things happen right in your own back yard. I think school systems should be held more accountable.

stoma · Member

HEY............... IF THERE'S GRASS ON THE FIELD................ PLAY BALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Stoma is Penn State material!

I bet he and PowerStroker split the cost of their Thailand vacations with BigRpowr from PSN.

stoma · Member

YEAAAA I BANGED A THAI BITCH.... SO WHAT?????????? FUCKIN HATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Administrator · $y$Op

stoma wrote:
HEY............... IF THERE'S GRASS ON THE FIELD................ PLAY BALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perminate bannable offence right there ^^^^

Goodbye

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

People of consentual age have grass on their field too, that's probably what Stoma was talking about. You have no grounds to "vacation" him based on that statement.

Administrator · $y$Op

Stoma was banned before I even read that post.

As it stands I am not going to pay for Stoma's bullshit, just like I wasn't going to tolerate Gerrys bullshit.

I am looking for quality, not quantity. Stoma and Stomette are not quality, however they do sound like they should get together. Match made in hell if you ask me.

Stoma has ONE informative automotive post about a Stereo. One post out of 950+ is a pretty poor average. I am positive that with Stoma's skills he will have no problem finding another forum to express himself.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

But they may not have even had a chance to share their contact info with each other. You should bring them back on a probational basis so as to allow for them to hook up.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

No PowerStroker, they should be aggressively abolished, much like Unions!

LOL!