NAACP Taking Complaints About U.S. Voter Laws to United Nations

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

NAACP filing complaints over US Voter laws to the U.N.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

I agree with the NAACP on this one.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

You would, because your a POS partisan hack.

Being the cheat you are PowerStroker (BWPOM awards) I have no doubt bitter people like you will go off the deep end when the time comes to man up.

You need photo ID to fly on a plane, you need a photo ID (licence) to drive, but yet you feel an election as important as the office of the President should not require identification or proof of citizenship?

I think this nation would be much better if people like yourself were rounded up and put in camps.... OFF AMERICAN soil. Or we could just round you all up and put you on a boat with a hole in it. Either way, people like you are the problem with this nation.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Flying on a plane is not a Constitutional right. Driving is not a Constitutional right. Voting should be as easy as possible, your voter ID laws disproportionately affect the elderly, the young, and minorities - just as they're designed to do.

No one should have to prove citizenship to vote. If you want to stop someone from voting, you should have to prove that they aren't a citizen. Otherwise let the people stand up and be counted. The Republicans already have a huge advantage in terms of corporate dollars buying politicians in unlimited amounts. The only thing corporations can't do is vote, so now you're trying to pass these laws to undermine the will of working class people eve more than they already are. Shame on you Rex.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Shame on me!? SHAME ON ME!?

Shame on them RACIST PIGS over at the NAACP! I don't care if the person is white, black, purple or yellow! If they don't have ID and if they cant prove they are a citizen of this nation then they damn well better not be able to vote! They have no skin in the game!

Shit PowerStroker, why not let corporations vote too?! If you don't need ID, and you don't need to be a citizen then what's the point? The presidential election isn't a raffle PowerStroker, where anyone who buys a ticket can play! You have to be a CITZEN of this nation, either BORN IN IT or SWORN IN IT! People like you weaken this nation! People like the NAACP weaken this nation. I don't care what a persons race or religion is, if they are a citizen they should be able to vote! BUT THEY HAVE TO PROVE THEY ARE WHO THEY SAY regardless if they are old, white, black, young, freshly sworn in WHATEVER!

What kind of ignorance are you suggesting PowerStroker? For gawds sake man there has to be some accountability. You already have to register to vote, and I damn sure don't want someone claiming to be me casting my vote! CHECK ID's. If you arent a Citizen you shouldn't be voting, it would be better for non-citizens to focus on getting nationalized.

You suggest it's a huge inconvenience for minorities or old people, but what big inconvenience are we talking about? Having to remember your ID? Because everything else is pretty much the same. The only people who would be against ID's and prof of citizenship when it comes time to voting would be the cheats. Are you a cheat PowerStroker?

gerryvz · Member

Pretty much anything that we do that involves the government or a government agency requires a photo ID and/or proof of citizenship:

- getting a passport / green card / work permit
- registering your kid for school (at least in the Republic of Texas)
- getting a driver's license (in the Republic of TX you have to prove you're legally here or a citizen)
- getting a social security card
- getting a job (most employers now check to ensure you are legally here)
- getting on an airplane
- crossing a border
- getting stopped for speeding
- adopting a child (ask me how I know; had to give fingerprints too)
- getting a concealed weapons permit and/or buying a gun
- getting medical insurance
- registering for the draft
- registering to vote

What's different about the act of voting? I'd actually go one further -- in addition to ID, I believe mandatory proof of US citizenship or eligibility to vote should be required at all voting precinct stations.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Where was the NAACP when people in Indiana were forging primary signatures?

Indiana 2008 Presidential Primary Election Fraud Probe Heats Up

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/07/indiana-2008-presidential-primary-election-fraud-probe-heats-up/?test=latestnews#ixzz1fuT2AkN3

-- Edited by SELLC on Wednesday 7th of December 2011 10:33:43 PM

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Gerry you are absolutely right on your list of things that require a government issued ID. You forgot however, there is a Constitutional prohibition against any kind of poll tax. Since obtaining a government issued ID usually costs something, it would violate the Constitution to require it as a prerequisite for voting unless it becomes free for everyone who qualifies for said government ID to get one. This means one of two things has to happen.

Option A: We amendnd the US Constitution to allow for poll taxes (good luck with that).

Option B: Government ID's become free for anyone who qualifies for them... Which means we the taxpayers end up paying to give ID's to the elderly, the young, and minorities.

Rex already has his panties in a bunch over tobacco taxes. If you tell him he has to pay more taxes to give brown people ID's so they can vote he's gonna go postal.

Let me know whether you want option A or B, and get back to me mkay?

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker wrote:
Gerry you are absolutely right on your list of things that require a government issued ID. You forgot however, there is a Constitutional prohibition against any kind of poll tax. Since obtaining a government issued ID usually costs something, it would violate the Constitution to require it as a prerequisite for voting unless it becomes free for everyone who qualifies for said government ID to get one. This means one of two things has to happen.
If a person can't afford a $10 ID card in the 4 years leading up to the election then they should be ticketed for vagrancy. Lets we forget the constitution also states that the government can not force people to buy a product or service, but that didn't stop Obama from signing the flawed heathcare bill into law.

Option A: We amendnd the US Constitution to allow for poll taxes (good luck with that).
Wont happen.

Option B: Government ID's become free for anyone who qualifies for them... Which means we the taxpayers end up paying to give ID's to the elderly, the young, and minorities.
I suggest the elderly save $10 from their social security to get an ID. The young need to get a job that pays them at least $10 and really, how hard is that? I am sure they spend more than that on their cell phones. The minorities are also quite capable of paying the $10.00 for an ID too, and maybe if all of these people above got ID's they could get Jobs, bank accounts and live like normal people. There is no need for your pathetic ilk to be handing out money for people to get identification. How they go thru life without one is amazing! You can actually get arrested for not having ID, so your statement above is just pathetic.

Rex already has his panties in a bunch over tobacco taxes. If you tell him he has to pay more taxes to give brown people ID's so they can vote he's gonna go postal.
To give Brown people ID's? You pathetic punk! You know there are white people out there with money problems too right? Hell you are one of them! To register to vote it will require identification anyway, so get with the program. State ID's are usually HALF the cost of a Drivers Licence, which would make it a whole $5 for ID. Your statements don't hold water, and your calling me a racist is just because your so pathetic you would use these people as a stepping stone to cheat the elections. People like that are the lowest scum on earth if you ask me.

Let me know whether you want option A or B, and get back to me mkay?
I am going with option C... Get a fucking job, beg, borrow or steal the $5 needed. Do you think not having gas money to show up for jury duty will get you off the contempt of court charge should you fail to appear? When these elderly, young and otherwise minority people buy something do they get to skip paying tax? NO!
Get a clue PowerStroker. If a person can not sting together $5 in the 4 years leading up to the election they sure as hell dont deserve to vote. Most of these people you mention are getting government assistance anyway, so it's mis-management on their part! I don't want any idiot influencing the election that cant seem to string together $5 over 4 years. And the others that aren't collecting government assistance, and have no ID are working under the table, and thus they shouldn't be able to vote either if they cant put aside $5 for ID.
What you suggest is so idiotic that I can only assume that your trying to piss people off.
The truth of the matter here is this.. Only people that are too fucked up in the head, strung out on drugs, or just mentally unstable to afford an ID would vote for Obama. All of which exclude the above people from entering into contracts or even voting. That's where Acron came in, wheeling these people to the polls and practically voting for them by way of proxy, or in even worse cases as mentioned above, flat out forgery.

gerryvz · Member

the flaw in PowerStroker's logic is that the cost of a simple gov't issued ID or proof of citizenship would never be considered a "poll tax" by a court. Identity is pretty much de rigeur in this country - everyone must have some form of ID (and if you're so far off the grid that you don't have an ID, then you're probably not WANTING to vote anyway).

Let me ask you this: even the poorest welfare recipients have to have SOME form of ID in order to register for and obtain their government benefit/entitlements. So does the government just GIVE welfare away to any person who walks in the door? Or unemployment insurance for that matter? Nope. Even the poorest people in the US have to have ID to get welfare.

When I walk over to my local church to vote in each election, they ask for my photo ID to check my name/picture against a voter's roll list for their precinct. Then they check me off on the list once they affirm my ID. So you are telling me that this current practice is illegal by US law, and that they cannot do that? So by your definition, anyone on the street who happens to know my name ought to be able to walk into my precinct, tell them my name, have them check my name off and then go hit the voting machine? No documentation or ID required?

Wow.

I can tell you don't live in Texas, boy. I don't think you'd make it in Texas. You know, they require major documentation to get a driver's license in Texas. Or to register your kid in school.

Check out the requirements Texas made me have when I moved there and turned in my Oregon driver's license to apply for a TX driver's license.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/driverlicense/identificationrequirements.htm

Don't think you'd make it in Texas, PowerStroker. Even though you'd have no problem finding work, I think the social norms and the laws would kill ya.

gerryvz · Member

Gov. Rick Perry says to PowerStroker ....

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

RE: NAACP filing complaints over US Voter laws to the U.N.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker wrote:
Rex, your thoughts about people who can't afford an ID shouldn't vote anyway are flawed because the purpose of voting is to create a Representative government. Even those on the bottom need representation - I would argue even more-so than those at the top. If you can figure out a way to have them vote without it costing them anything I'm all ears.

I don't care for the way in which you interpret my statements. I have never said that people should not be permitted to vote, what I have said is the vote needs to be accurate and measures in place to ensure voter fraud is prevented. Everyone who is a citizen can get an ID easy enough, its really no more of a hassle than registering to vote. If by some unimaginable chance that someone could not scrape together $5 for an ID in 4 years I don't think it would be too much of a burden on tax payers to cover the cost of their ID providing they can PROVE they are indigent.

The way you explain how the voting system is set up in MN sounds like a recipe for voter fraud. I think it needs to be changed. Elections for the office of the President, or any other government position needs to be taken seriously. It's not like one of our BWPOM elections.

Asking someone to PROVE their Identity and Citizenship is NOT asking too much.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Now I know there is a problem with "election fraud," like when mass mailings show up in the mailboxes of people living in certain communities with instructions on when and where to vote which turns out to be WRONG information... Or when a partisan Secretary of State accidentally forgets to update the list of eligible voters after convicted felons complete their debt to society... Or when a county clerk breaks the chain of custody on some voting machine hard drives and takes them home, only to discover several thousand votes that weren't originally counted by the machines, enough to flip an election result (all without a single elction judge present)... Or when a Senator owns a company that builds voting machines (Diebold) and somehow they have a much higher rate of "glitches" than their ATM's ever did, or when the communities who use the Diebold machines are the only communities that have a major discrepancy between the exit polls and what the machines "tabulated"... But is there really a big problem with "voter fraud" that I'm unaware of?

Can you give me some actual examples of it?

Is it really such a huge sweeping problem that requires more government regulation? I thought you guys hate government regulation?

The fact that you are even familiar with the term "voter fraud" is proof that you have been manipulated by Republican political hacks who successfully planted that idea in you brain so you would support policies that would make it harder for minorities to vote.

_____________________________________________________________

ThinkProgress - Justice

Catch-22: WI Says You Need A Photo ID To Get A Birth Certificate To Get A Photo ID

Despite A 0.0002 Percent Rate Of Voter Fraud, Reince Priebus Claims Wisconsin Is Riddled With Voter Fraud

By Scott Keyes on Dec 2, 2011 at 5:05 pm

Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus made a curious claim on MSNBC today, alleging that Wisconsin is a state that was absolutely riddled with voter fraud.

The problem? A recent study by the nonpartisan Brennan Center for Justice found just seven cases of voter fraud out of three million votes cast in Wisconsin during the 2004 election, a fraud rate of 0.0002 percent. All seven of these cases involved persons with felony convictions who weren't eligible to vote after being released from prison.

Unfazed by the minuscule incidence of actual voter fraud comedian Stephen Colbert joked that our democracy is under siege from an enemy so small it could be hiding anywhere Priebus went on MSNBC to defend Wisconsins new photo ID requirement and yesterdays anti-voting rights measure passed by the House GOP. When host Martin Bashir pushed the RNC Chair about his partys motivations for restricting voting rights, Priebus pointed to his home state of Wisconsin and declared, I come from a state in Wisconsin that was absolutely riddled with voter fraud, okay?

BASHIR: Just last night Republicans in the House voted to dismantle the Election Assistance Commission, the sole purpose of which is to make sure states meet voting standards that prevent fraud. Why would Republicans do that if theyre honestly concerned about preventing fraud? [...]
PRIEBUS: Well listen, I dont want to get into the specifics here, but let me tell you something. I come from a state in Wisconsin that was absolutely riddled with voter fraud, okay? They had the smokes-for-votes exchange in Milwaukee. This is something that has nothing to do with constitutional rights of the people who are committing the fraud, it has to do with the constitutional rights of people under our Constitution that one person gets one vote, not two or three or four or five, by not having reasonable voting standards in this country to make sure that fraud doesnt occur.

Watch it:

Research has found that voters are 39 times more likely to be struck by lightning than commit voter fraud at the polls, and 3,500 times more likely to report a UFO encounter.

Voter fraud certainly ought to be prosecuted in the extremely rare instances when it occurs. But Republicans like Priebus are using the false specter of fraud as a cudgel to disenfranchise millions.

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Thursday 8th of December 2011 07:47:45 PM

gerryvz · Member

I hate to quote FOX News on this but I happened to come across this article this week on the very topic you are mentioning. I'd quote another source but none of the "mainstream media" seem to be covering it. I do consider it significant.

http://nation.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/07/2008-voter-fraud-investigation-heats-indiana

gerryvz · Member

Some other random but current articles about the very topic of this thread's discussion, definitely read these PS because they are not from conservative sites.

http://www.ucsdguardian.org/component/k2/item/25154-quick-takes-photo-id-requirements-for-voting

http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2011/dec/08/look-who-backs-voter-id/

http://www.policyshop.net/home/2011/12/7/nuns-seniors-ufos-and-the-growing-problem-of-voter-id-requir.html

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

gerryvz wrote:
I hate to quote FOX News on this but I happened to come across this article this week on the very topic you are mentioning. I'd quote another source but none of the "mainstream media" seem to be covering it. I do consider it significant.

http://nation.foxnews.com/politics/2011/12/07/2008-voter-fraud-investigation-heats-indiana

LOL!

Ahhhh... Ehem... Check out responce number 7. LOL

I beat you to it. LOL

But yes, 3 whole pages of signatures with the same handwriting!? Not so good. Kind of polarizes the need for getting ID and verification. This extends not only to Voting, but apparently now it needs to done with regards to petitions. Just a damn shame.

gerryvz · Member

Sorry, I'm a wee bit jet-lagged as I'm in Singapore and 14 hours ahead of my normal time zone. I didn't read the middle of this post, only the beginning before I left and then the last few responses.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

SELLC wrote:

But yes, 3 whole pages of signatures with the same handwriting!? Not so good. Kind of polarizes the need for getting ID and verification. This extends not only to Voting, but apparently now it needs to done with regards to petitions. Just a damn shame.

You are missing my point and still confusing election fraud with voter fraud. I think both should be prosecuted whenever it is discovered, and regardless of which party is doing it. I would suggest that you realize there is a difference between election fraud, and voter fraud, and put forward policies that address the one that is actually a problem.

How is requiring every voter to show an ID at the polls going to prevent some partisan hack from falsifying signatures on a petition??? It's not going to at all. All that is going to happen is that a bunch of qualified people are going to go try to vote and be turned away for no fault of their own.

I really wish conservatives would be a little more logic driven, and less bigotry driven.

Gerry, did YOU even read and understand the articles you posted??? Here is a quote from the first non Fox article that YOU posted that proves MY point:

"Voter Fraud is Not Prevalent Issue
The proposed voter ID law purports to stop widespread voter fraud a crime that simply does not exist. The voter ID law is only effective in preventing impersonation of other voters at the polls. Most states use provisional ballots, which are used when voters cannot prove up-front that they are eligible to vote. Their votes are recorded, but are not counted unless they provide the required documentation to poll workers. For this reason, the problem of impersonation fraud is largely unlikely.

Out of the 400 million votes cast in general elections since 2000, theres only one recorded attempt at impersonation fraud, and nine unresolved cases where the crime was suspected but not proven.

Many accusations are improperly labeled as voter fraud when they are mistaken for other types of election misconduct.

Allegations include ballot tampering, inaccurate vote tallying, vote buying, voting by ineligible citizens and multiple voting in the voters own name all misdemeanors that should not be looped into the category of voter fraud"

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Friday 9th of December 2011 02:45:16 PM

gerryvz · Member

Yes of course I did! I was posting recent stuff from both sides of the spectrum that I came across.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Ah well here I thought you made a Rex move by not paying attention, when actually you were being downright noble. Good on you Gerry!!!

gerryvz · Member

Now don't go get all mushy and emotional.

I still adamantly think unions should be busted and abolished (teacher's unions, Teamsters and US Government workers most of all).

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Have you somehow been wronged by a union before?

gerryvz · Member

The NEA and teachers' unions have wronged pretty much every child in America. Teaching should be a meritocracy, like the private sector, so that the best teachers are retained and promoted and the worst are fired. But our system doesn't work that way, and the unions have control of the situation. The teachers' lobby and NEA is just as if not more powerful than the NRA (which liberals hate).

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

So you would privatize education if you could?

Wouldn't that make it much more expensive, much less equal, and run the risk of having tax money spent on indoctrinating children with religion?

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Sunday 11th of December 2011 06:50:43 PM

gerryvz · Member

I have no issue with all with public schools, as long as they are operated and regulated correctly. I don't know if you have kids or not, but I can tell you (having lived in two states where my kids were in public schools) that public schools are pretty much a joke. Here in Texas they are much less of a joke than they were in Portland, Oregon, thanks to Texas Governor George W. Bush who enacted major educational reform that dramatically improved the quality of the schools. Even then, they leave something to be desired, and I say that living in one of the very best school districts in the entire state. I can also say that public schools nowadays are a pale imitation of what they used to be when I was in them.

I had to send my son to a private Catholic school in Portland, because the Portland Public School system was so bad. We did put him into public school one year, as a third-grader, but pulled him back out again at the end of January because of the poor education he was getting, not to mention the reverse racism (and my son has dark skin, and was getting bullied by the blacks) that the teachers and administration would do nothing about, even when it happened right in front of them. They didn't have control of the situation. Not to mention, in liberal Portland, it is fine and well OK for blacks to call brown and white-skinned students whatever they want to, to physically bully and intimidate them, etc. But if a white student happens to do same to a brown or black-skinned student, it is racism and the student is ejected from the school immediately. Major double standard, and it exists all over the country (with adults too).

Why is it that I get called derogatory racial names by groups of black people when I walk down the street, and that is perfectly OK. But if I was ever to do something like that, I'd be violating their civil rights, be branded a racist and KKK member, and probably be hauled off to jail. Why is that double-standard allowed to exist for children and adults in our society, PowerStroker?

This year my wife is home-schooling our son, while our daughter is in the public schools. I wish more people would home-school. It truly is the way to go.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

If you caudle your children, they could grow up to be weak... Sometimes it's best to throw them to the wolves and let them grow up strong.

Obviously, raising them this way would be in stark contrast to the way you were raised, but it would probably be for the best.

Take Rex for example, he was dropped daily as a child, and see how well he turned out?

gerryvz · Member

Ahh, so you think that reverse racism is just fine. That blacks shouldn't have to live by the same rules and norms as whites. Good to know. So par for the course -- I thought you were for equality and equal opportunity for all. LOL. I guess equality in some things is selective in your eyes.

gerryvz · Member

And by the way, it's "coddle" not "caudle". YOUR obvious sub-par public education never taught you to spell 7th-grade words correctly. LOL !!

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Well, since you're the coddling expert, I'll take your word on it. Oh well, if you can't win our debates, at least you can point out spelling and grammar errors ;)

Kind of odd, usually I'm the one pointing out Rex's errors... Spelling, grammar, and "otherwise".

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Thursday 15th of December 2011 11:25:14 PM

gerryvz · Member

The fact that you would have to rely on spell check in the first place digs the hole even deeper.

(Of course, I was a two-year-in-a-row public school district spelling bee champion (4th and 5th grades), so I'm a bit sensitive to spelling issues. Of course, typos are normal/accepted, but yours was an obvious misuse, rather than a typo.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker wrote:

Take Rex for example, he was dropped daily as a child, and see how well he turned out?

Thanks...

I think.... confuse

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

LOL, I was wondering if you'd catch that!

gerryvz · Member

That's a pretty high compliment, coming from PS !!

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

You almost have to know a debate has just about reached the bitter end when someone has to resort to spelling! LOL

Still, in the game of seeing who's the biggest smart ass it pays to be a good speller. If it weren't for spelling and grammar errors I might have been taken more seriously. It's frustrating I know, but now Gerry has the burden of always spelling something right, or be de-horsed.

Vicious cycle. Then again Gerry did place a typo disclaimer. LOL

I rely heavy on the spell check now days, and while it's a good setup, sometimes it seems I have to click a few times to get it to check the article. I didn't know if this was my slow internet or something I could bitch about... Oh how I love to bitch when I pay for things.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Friday 16th of December 2011 12:14:28 AM

gerryvz · Member

Geez, PowerStroker, you can't even spell my name right when making a spoof. It's TWO WORDS, with a space in between.

Just give it up... and admit that your spelling sucks almost as badly as your political beliefs.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

LOL

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Getting back on topic.....

gerryvz · Member

This poll, released today, indicates that ~70% of Americans don't believe that Photo ID voting laws are discriminatory.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/december_2011/69_say_photo_id_voting_laws_are_not_discriminatory

OVERRULED (by the American public) -- PowerStroker.

Obama and his minions are SO out of the mainstream these days.....

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

I imagine that 70% of the respondents had a photo ID.

Minority rights should NEVER be up to a majority vote.

gerryvz · Member

PowerStroker wrote:
Minority rights should NEVER be up to a majority vote.

Did you pick that line up from Al Gore or something?

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

No, Thom Hartmann actually.

gerryvz · Member

I was referring to the 2000 election Supreme Court decision

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Well, in that case, a majority of voters were undermined by a majority on the Supreme Court.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker wrote:
I agree with the NAACP on this one.

Yeah, because it's wrong to mistreat someone because of the color of their skin... But it's not wrong when said minorities get special consideration for college acceptance.

Supreme Court to take up reverse affirmative action case at Texas university

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/21/supreme-court-to-take-up-reverse-affirmative-action-case-at-texas-university/?test=latestnews#ixzz1n4jR27lg

gerryvz · Member

Here's an interesting case where the State of Florida found 53,000 dead voters on its rolls and purged them.

http://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2012/05/16/53000-dead-voters-found-in-florida/

But you know, PowerStroker (and Eric Holder) says that voter fraud NEVER happens in this country.....

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

By J. Christian Adams

Bio

J. Christian Adams is an election lawyer who served in the Voting Rights Section at the U.S. Department of Justice. His forthcoming book Injustice: Exposing the Racial Agenda of the Obama Justice Department (Regnery) releases in October. His website is Election Law Center.

Gerry, have you ever tried getting "news" from someone who wasn't a partisan?

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker wrote:
Gerry, have you ever tried getting "news" from someone who wasn't a partisan?