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Post Info TOPIC: 5.0 cummins


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5.0 cummins


I have a 2017 nidssn xd 5.0 Cummins v8.

Absolutely fantastic truck except for the def system causes the fuel mileage to drop  when it goes into clean mode. I have had it to the dealer. Several times. It gets 20 hiway.

And qs low as 8 in town.

Is there a mod or repair that will not void the factory warranty?



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It's operating as designed. The DEF system is there to reduce a pollutant called Oxides of Nitrogen (NOx) from being released in excessive amounts. Warranties are not immediately voided from performing modifications, though that is commonly an outcome. Another thing to consider is the fine levied by the EPA for emissions tampering. The fine is presently $37,500.00 per offence. The fine is not only for the person performing the modification, but any repair shop that is "complicit" by noticing it and failing to bring the vehicle in to compliance before releasing it back to the customer.

At any dealership I have worked it was policy to not perform any work unless the customer first agrees to pay us to restore full operation of all emissions systems. Usually fixing such systems cost several times what it costs to defeat them. Even if one could know for sure that they wouldn't be caught, most technicians have professional standards that would prevent them from being complicit, though there are always some prostitutes out there if you look hard enough.

You can buy a lot of fuel for what the fine costs, I'd leave it alone if I were you.



The hazards of tampering Part IV: Punishments for tampering
Lucas DealApril 10, 2014

https://www.successfuldealer.com/the-hazards-of-tampering-part-iv-punishments-for-tampering/

When a tampered unit is discovered by authorities, the vehicle owner isnt the only one on the hook for a fine.

Current EPA tampering laws allow the government to levy fines on service providers who not only perform tampering, but also those who identify tampering during emission system maintenance and fail to bring the vehicle to compliance.

MISS THE START? Heres Part I of our special report on tampering.

Which means, you dont even have to perform tampering to get busted, Peter Savage, director of fleet solutions at Clarke Power Services and chairman of TMCs Emissions Tampering task force, says. A service provider ignoring a clear violation is fined just the same as the service provider who actually performed the tampering.

And at $37,500 per incident, the fines are quite harsh.

Unfortunately that information has not been clearly communicated to the commercial vehicle market.

A recent Successful Dealer reader survey uncovered only 55 percent of dealers were aware that $37,500 is the maximum fine that can be levied on a service provider who offers tampering. Nearly 24 percent of responders thought the fine was $3,750, and almost 15 percent responded that there isnt a fine at all. (See graph below for survey results.)

SD Figure 1

But its important note that in order to incur these violations, a service provider must be hired to perform work on an emission system.

The EPA says examples of that work include tampering, and alterations made to an engine and emission system post-tampering legal or illegal that do not bring the unit back into compliance. An attempt to bring a vehicle back to compliance that fails also can result in a fine if not reported to the vehicle owner and EPA.

Brad Williamson, manager, engine and component marketing for Daimler Trucks North America (DTNA) says DTNA advises its dealer network to be mindful of the intricacy of these rules when tasked with correcting tampering. DTNA protocol says techs should not attempt to partially repair a tampered system and return it to the customer without having corrected the tampering, he says.

Service providers are currently not liable for tampering or subject to fine when providing non-emission related service on a vehicle that is later uncovered to exhibit tampering.

Bill Puchniarz, manager, inline field services at Navistar, provided this service provider example last fall at TMC.

If a truck comes into your location and youre going to work on the brakes and the engine has been tampered with you have no liability. But if youre going to work on a check engine light, you have a responsibility, he says.

But the market comprehension of these rules is far from universal.

There is much debate over the responsibility of service providers who observe, but do not service, tampered equipment; as well as service providers who discover tampering while making other repairs and dont address the alternations.

The EPA prefers disclosure its tips line can be found HERE and says service providers should be vocal in pointing out tampering when identified.

This is an important courtesy to customers, says Savage. Vehicle owners can sometimes be unaware that their truck has been damaged. And because violations are levied to current vehicle owners, a customer who unknowingly buys a tampered truck immediately becomes at risk of a fine.

Certified dealer inspections before used vehicle purchases eliminate this risk, says Mario Sanchez, Cummins technical sales support director, but in cases when one isnt done theres nothing a customer can do later to absolve responsibility if his new vehicle exhibits characteristics of tampering.

The EPA is working to eliminate these grey areas; creating a clear picture of service providers responsibilities to tampering enforcement.



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I would also add that the DEF system doesn't effect fuel economy because it simply involves the injection of an ammonia based emissions fluid through a selective reduction catalyst. The emissions system that acutally does effect fuel economy when it's operating, is the the one that traps particulate emissions. The Diesel particulate filter, which is also in your exhaust system, uses a soot trap to collect the particulate/soot matter, which is why modern Diesels don't blow black smoke anymore. Once the filter becomes too full, a regeneration or self cleaning event takes place which burns extra fuel only during the filter cleaning process. Either through a separate fuel injector in the exhaust system, or by firing the injectors an extra time during the exhaust stroke. Either way, unburned fuel will enter the exhaust system and cause the catalytic converter to become an internal flame thrower which burns the soot that is trapped in the DPF until it becomes ash and is able to exit the tailpipe harmlessly. 

This is another federally mandated system that will cost several times more to fix than to disable.



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PowerStroker wrote:

I would also add that the DEF system doesn't effect fuel economy because it simply involves the injection of an ammonia based emissions fluid through a selective reduction catalyst. The emissions system that acutally does effect fuel economy when it's operating, is the the one that traps particulate emissions. The Diesel particulate filter, which is also in your exhaust system, uses a soot trap to collect the particulate/soot matter, which is why modern Diesels don't blow black smoke anymore. Once the filter becomes too full, a regeneration or self cleaning event takes place which burns extra fuel only during the filter cleaning process. Either through a separate fuel injector in the exhaust system, or by firing the injectors an extra time during the exhaust stroke. Either way, unburned fuel will enter the exhaust system and cause the catalytic converter to become an internal flame thrower which burns the soot that is trapped in the DPF until it becomes ash and is able to exit the tailpipe harmlessly. 

This is another federally mandated system that will cost several times more to fix than to disable.


 Thanks for the vast knowledge .  I do not want to break the law.

Is there any driving style thay will keep the Regen mode down to a minimum.

The fuel consumption in Regen is rediculous.



-- Edited by Hammerin frijoles on Sunday 20th of May 2018 10:23:50 PM

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Meanwhile, your Local, State and Federal vehicles are exempt.

hmm



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U sure about that Rex, we fix a lot of Minneapolis fleet vehicles and they still have all of their emissions control systems.

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Hammerin frijoles wrote:

 


Is there any driving style thay will keep the Regen mode down to a minimum.

The fuel consumption in Regen is rediculous.

 


  Avoid towing or having a lead foot, that's about it.



-- Edited by PowerStroker on Monday 21st of May 2018 04:28:18 PM

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"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."     Lyndon B. Johnson

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PowerStroker wrote:

U sure about that Rex, we fix a lot of Minneapolis fleet vehicles and they still have all of their emissions control systems.


 

Sorry I must have missed the catalytic converter on them military vehicles... come to think about it my Abrams tank is smoking a little on take off too...

Ah well, at least we can count on newer Minneapolis fleet vehicles to have their factory issued emissions equipment. 

I know I'll sleep much better tonight knowing this! *cough*



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Thank you for your info stroker.

I should have bought a gas engine



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PowerStroker - what do you stroke with so much power?
just askin'
dirty minds wanna know!



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Well, I work on the Ford Powerstroke Diesel's a lot, but perhaps there's something else you could stroke for me;)

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SELLC wrote:

 


 

Sorry I must have missed the catalytic converter on them military vehicles... come to think about it my Abrams tank is smoking a little on take off too...

Ah well, at least we can count on newer Minneapolis fleet vehicles to have their factory issued emissions equipment. 

I know I'll sleep much better tonight knowing this! *cough*


 Is your Abrams tank registered for use on US highways? What year is your Hummer and what standards were required the year it was produced?



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"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."     Lyndon B. Johnson

BLACK LIVES MATTER



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Why..of course! I've been known to stroke an ego or two.
It's always good for morale ...

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^Yeah, that's what I was thinking, ego.



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"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."     Lyndon B. Johnson

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Hey Hammerin, don't be this guy...




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"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."     Lyndon B. Johnson

BLACK LIVES MATTER



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PowerStroker wrote:

Hey Hammerin, don't be this guy...



 That I's funny I have seen those trades videos. funny stuff

My off-road accesories dealer already  told me that the dealers can tell if the vehickle has been chipped even after removal.

He said there is information left on the readouts.



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Powerstroker you can call me bean



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