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Post Info TOPIC: Israel at WAR with Palestine.
Who do you support at this time? [3 vote(s)]

Israel
66.7%
Palestine
0.0%
Netural
33.3%
Don't care
0.0%


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Israel at WAR with Palestine.


As of this morning Palestine launched a rumored 5,000 rocket assault on Israel and has also invaded the Southern part of Israel, killing and taking hostages -- one of them a Commander Nimrod (am I the only one that finds that name a bit odd).

Lot's of videos of shit being blown up, a few women murdrered and their bodies being paraded around in the backs of trucks... also seen a post showing a video of a Mosque in Jerusalem calling for Muslims to rise up and wage a "Holy War" in Israel! 

Much of this is hot off the Twitter press, but so far Canada and India have made public pledges of support for Israel, while Iran has taken Palestine's side (no surprise there).

And I realize these dust-ups happen frequently over there -- but this one just seems to be much more severe... 

What does everyone else think?

 



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Where is Palestine on a current map?

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You're joking, right? It's right under the new map for Crimea, and perhaps Ukraine -- or "The" Ukraine if Russia has it's way. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_territories

Are we going back to biblical times? Because if so, we better check the map of North America while we're at it!

I was seeing some pretty horrific images and videos when this first broke -- some of which have been scrubbed already! Never know, what is propoganda and what is just too much for civilian eyes... What's your take on this one?

israel23south.jpeg

Fake, real, propoganda? 



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My point is, that after WW2 the United Nations created borders that restored Israel in its entirety, but did nothing to create a home for the Palestinians who lived there for centuries. For a while there was a peace process that would have eventually resulted in the West Bank and Gaza Strip being deeded to the Palestinians to have a country of their own, but it fell through.

Who is to blame for the failure is such a difficult thing to answer. there were atrocities on both sides. The Palestinian people using terrorist tactics, because that's all they had left. and the Israelis using state of the art military hardware, given to them by the US, with which they seized land in the West Bank and Gaza to build Jewish settlements, ever shrinking the homeland that the Palestinians were waiting for.

Who is right? Who is wrong? Is there even a side here that is without sin? Well, ultimately it was the United Nations fucked this up by not simultaneously creating a Palestinian state. And because they failed in this, the moral highroad can't be known. It has perpetuated violence from both sides ever since.

Unlike many of my Republican friends, I believe the Holocaust happened. And I firmly believe Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state, and to defend itself - which I'm sure it will with overwhelming force as usual. I also believe that these incidents were far fewer when Israel elected leadership that actually believed in a 2 state solution. At present, the government of Israel is hard right wing, and doesn't believe Palestine deserves to exist at all (Very macho, you'd like it). Which is odd since they were the victims of such a philosophy from the German government during WW2, but I digress. The best policy that we as Americans can pursue, is to make any future aid to Israel contingent upon stopping all settlement activities in Gaza and the West Bank, otherwise we're not only picking sides, but throwing fuel on the fire.

If your neighbor kept moving his fence farther and farther onto your property, would you not at some point snap too? And if a government half a world away kept supplying him with the means to force the movement of his fence farther onto your land, would you not begin to hate that country too? Would it not radicalize you?

If the Israelis don't like these attacks, maybe they should stop building settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and electing neo-fascist leadership? The events of today are horrific. I am saddened by the deaths and injuries to civilians. But I would suggest that if any of today's victims voted for the government that approved the settlement activities that spawned this, they are not exactly "innocent" civilians now are they? But for the victims who voted against the current Israeli government, I am truly saddened and sorry.

Back when Israel was actively pursuing peace through a 2 state solution, and such an attack happened, it was so easy to declare Israel the victim and in the moral right. Now it's far less clear. The picture of the white Jewish girl victim shows the side you clearly empathize with, just remember there are innocent victims on the other side too, and have been for a very long time in case you feel the need to post any of those photos too.



-- Edited by PowerStroker on Saturday 7th of October 2023 09:35:29 AM

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That's a very well thought out and played hand PowerStroker... I sense that perhaps you're siding with Hamas -- you know, the group that has launched the attacks and is currently classified as a sponsor of terror group by the US... You're also giving much consideration for them as the likes of Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Pakistan and many other bad hombres there in the Middle East -- huh.

You know I have also heard it floated that the $6 Billion in ransom payments may have funded this "surprise attack" that has so far at the time of this writing claimed 100 lives in Israel... this is a country you said is armed to the gills with US and other high end weaponry. Are you suggesting that Israel should just turn the other cheek? 

Not sure how you can maintain a center ground here... already Canada, France and India have publicly stated they stand in solidarity with Israel -- and yet not a word from our President at this late hour... 

I dunno, you claim we should help our aliances -- but something here shows that Democrats don't seem to like Israel too much... It's just another uprising -- move along, nothing to see here... right?

Speaking of biblical prophecies, it is said that WWIII will start in Israel (according to some peoples interpretations)... Seeing the Muslims take the "Holy War" road -- with Lebanon saying they will invade if Israel launches a ground campaign -- and Iran biting at the bit, along with Russia wanting Ukraine, China wanting Taiwan and India forever wanting to put it's foot up Pakistans ass --  it just feels like you're being a bit cavalier. 



-- Edited by SELLC on Saturday 7th of October 2023 09:58:52 AM

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The hashtag "Where's Biden" is starting to trend on Twitter.



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Well it would seem President Biden has weighed in on this matter and says the US fully supports Israel's right to defend itself. The same goes for your buddy Zel in Ukraine -- he says they support Israel also. 

So you don't have to play the fence anymore PowerStroker! Your marching orders have been handed down!

Odd thing how this happened after a $6 billion dollar ransom was paid to Iran... also odd it happened a day after the US shot down a Turkish drone carrying weapons too close to a US base in Syria. 

All I know is Trump Jr. had a point because I too seen more crazy videos in the two hours that this situation unfolded this morning out of Israel than I have seen of Ukraine battle in two years! It was crazy PowerStroker! 

Yeah, I got sucked in! People were posting some crazy stuff as you can see above! And that's just one of the photos -- the videos were worse!



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I do NOT take the side of Hamas, I merely understand their gripe, which is worth understanding no matter which side of this one is on. And as I understand it, the "ransom" of which you speak can only be used for humanitarian means because the checks have to be written by a 3rd party that actually controls the funds. But I could be wrong.

President Biden doesn't give me marching orders. It's Republicans who want a "dear leader," whereas Democrats want a "meeting." And if he views this attack as totally unprovoked, well, he's entitled to his opinion, though I suspect his view is more nuanced like mine. Congress is the body that appropriates support for Israel, and I hope Congress starts to make it contingent on stopping the settlement activities otherwise WW3 probably will happen, and you won't like the tax burden from it when it does.



-- Edited by PowerStroker on Saturday 7th of October 2023 01:29:57 PM

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Your whole "but I could be wrong" is what worries me... it's like you saying to cut the red wire to disarm the bomb, -- "BUT, I could be wrong"

These people been fighting over this land since biblical times! We have discussed Israel, Jews and all of this in great detail in the past -- with lots of learning along the way!

What have we learned? Well, the title of this thread is "Israel at WAR with Palestine", like a smartass you asked me where Palestine was on a map... knowing damn well that Palestine is no longer exist on a map -- and that is why we have this mess that is currently and what feels like eternally ongoing. Palestine would like to regain state-hood... but they keep letting terror groups infultrate their "Gaza Strip" with the intention of TAKING it and more land. Since you are sympathetic in your understanding of Hamas' "Gripe" then you must also know that the path to state-hood is not sending over 5,000 rockets to your neighbor -- along with an invasion with lots of death, kidnappings and destruction. Parading dead bodies up and down the street in the back of pickup trucks isn't exactly cool either!

Is this the point where Isreal says "NO MORE?" and eradicates this fatwa element? Seems to me to do that would require Israel just take over the GAZA strip and create an even bigger buffer -- sort of like what Russia has been doing to it's neighbors. This is what you encourage when you are sympathetic to Hamas' "gripe"!

Clearly the Gaza Strip (Palestine if were going back to biblical claims) can't even handle what little land they have left without resorting to all out war and letting known terror groups to opperate in their borders. It's like how many of these radicalized types have sucessfully crossed our Southern borders and are here in the USA right now? Time will tell -- but clearly you were shooting from the hip earlier yesterday morning while you awaited your marching orders.

I got caught up in the propoganda as it broke -- but even in the heat of the moment I knew who our wingmen were, and I didn't have to wait for marching orders to know that a surprise attack of this scale against Israel was way out of the Gaza Strips means. They had help and clearly this was organized! The only question now is how much more do they have hidden over there? What's next? If I lived in Israel and was just attacked -- I think what comes next is quite clear.



-- Edited by SELLC on Saturday 7th of October 2023 11:33:34 PM

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Russia is wrong to invade Ukraine.

Israel is wrong to settle the West Bank and Gaza.

None of the 6 billion in sanction waivers has even been released yet.

 

IfNotNow, a progressive Jewish organization in the U.S., condemned the killing of civilians, but pointed to the Israeli government's actionssuggesting that they had provoked the violent response from Hamas.

"We watch the unfolding horrors with heartbreak and dread for our loved ones Israelis and Palestinians alike," IfNotNow said in a statement emailed to Newsweek.

"We cannot and will not say today's actions by Palestinian militants are unprovoked. Every day under Israel's system of apartheid is a provocation. The strangling siege on Gaza is a provocation," the organization said. "Settlers terrorizing entire Palestinian villages, soldiers raiding and demolishing Palestinian homes, murdering Palestinians in the streets, Israeli ministers calling for genocide and expulsion. These are the provocations of the most extremist right wing government in Israel's history and an emboldened fascist movement escalating this crisis across the land."



-- Edited by PowerStroker on Sunday 8th of October 2023 09:47:12 AM

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Yeah sure... we should all listen to a progressive Jewish group in the United States when it comes to things going on in Israel...

Riiiiiiight.

You got any supporting links for that $6 billion dollar claim you made? Asking for a friend.



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Are you suggesting we should only listen to conservative Jewish groups? Because that was the root cause of this problem to begin with.

I'm sure you can use a search engine as well as anyone else.

 

J2D2PoX.png

 



-- Edited by PowerStroker on Sunday 8th of October 2023 01:18:05 PM

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I think that many see money as a fungible thing, whereas $6 billion opened up here, will allow another $6 billion to be spent elsewhere. I'm glad you brought up the stipulations and the fact the money has oversight to some degree -- I think it's safe to say the planes full of cash that Obama sent over could have been used for this most recent operation... but the REAL problem with what Democrats are doing is with the fact they keep paying Iran for hostages! Both under Obama, and also under Biden! You have already said that paying ransoms is not a good idea, so you have to agree that this kind of behavior only begets more people being taken hostage! Just like we are seeing in Israel right now! Lot's of hostages were taken -- some American!

It would appear from what I am reading that Israel has decided to move into the Gaza Strip with a ground opperation! Apparently they are not willing to negotiate with the terrorist and thus plan to just go into Gaza and terminate Hamas! So it's anyones guess who might get involved once that happens... Already I am reading reports that Lebanon has launched missles into Israel! Saudi Arabia has also pledged their support to Palestine (aka Hamas currently).

The death toll is now over 1,000+ people... reports of babies having their heads cut off -- video of entire rooms of people just slaughtered as they go thru and pump a few more rounds in each body to ensure everyone is dead. It's pretty gruesome.



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One thing we need to understand is that Hamas does not speak for Palestine, even though they purport to.

When you think of Palestine, think 2 million civilians living in Gaza, which basically amounts to an open air prison, because their land was taken from them after WW2 by the UN. When you think of Hamas, think of the KKK or Al Qaeda.

While 99% of KKK members are Christians, 99% of Christians are not Klan members. Just as 99% of Muslims are peaceful people and are very upset when terrorist organizations like Al Qaeda purport to speak for them and take actions allegedly on their behalf. And I would bet that over 90% of Palestinians are very upset with the actions of Hamas, and will ultimately suffer and die because of actions Hamas took. This should not be an Israel vs Palestine war as your thread title suggests, it should be an Israel vs Hamas war. And if Israel is smart, they will target their attacks very carefully on the Hamas elements in Gaza without collateral damage to the civilian population, but so far, things are looking very bad as far as that goes. As I have already stated, the current government of Israel is very hard right wing, and words like "restraint" or "careful targeting" is not in their vocabulary.

I absolutely agree that paying for hostages only encourages people to take more hostages. What I suspect however is that the hostage negotiations, and the sanctions waivers were only a small part of a larger plan to negotiate another nuclear agreement with Iran. If I end up being wrong about that, then I will be disappointed with Biden on this issue. To be determined.

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PowerStroker wrote:

99% of Muslims are peaceful people and are very upset when terrorist organizations like Al Qaeda purport to speak for them and take actions allegedly on their behalf. 


 

I guess we will soon find out because they are calling for a Global Day of Jihad tomorrow on Friday, October 2023!

Just let the implications of that set in PowerStroker! GLOBAL!



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Who are "they" exactly? Regular Palestinians, or Hamas and other extremist groups? We need to be really precise in our language here, because there's a huge difference.

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Don't you get it PowerStroker? I don't think you do! 

This whole "precise in our language" liberal bullshit you're on is dangerous thinking! The call for a "Global Day of Jihad" is made to ALL Muslims - regardless where they are from. The Muslim religion is like a brotherhood -- it's not like how you have Christians, Catholics, Baptist or all the different flavors... That is what I have been saying since the start of this thread -- "They" referes to Hamas, who is calling ALL Muslims to partake in this Global Day of Terror! They have even went as far as telling people flat out "Money helps but they are looking for blood and flesh sacrafices" on this day.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-officials-beef-up-police-presence-day-jihad-despite-no-specific-credible-threats

So your 99% claim will be put to the test tomorrow... but even if you're right and only 1% go Jihad tomorrow -- that could result in a LOT of terror! Stay extra vigilant tomorrow! As it's clear that Hamas (who is now being called an ISIS offshoot by your party) is trying to appeal to Muslims all over... You can't tell me that it's not going to suck being of Middle Eastern decent tomorrow (at least in America) -- as people will be on high alert. 



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Hamas is always trying to appeal to Muslims all over and calling on all of Islam to Jihad. This is nothing new. AL Qaeda does the same thing, and so does Hezbollah and ISIS, and the hard right extreme of every major religion. These groups are always ignored by the overwhelming majority of the people they call upon. Only other extremist groups with like goals heed the call. Maybe "they" will do something tomorrow, but "they" don't represent the overwhelming majority of Palestine or Islam. It is important that we are mindful of that.

Hamas doesn't speak for Palestine anymore than Hitler spoke for Catholicism. Sure they have several radicalized followers, but we need to avoid painting all Muslims with the broad brush of terrorist. Sure, some absolutely are radicalized and are terrorists, and those specific ones need to die. The vast majority however aren't and don't. The same is true with Christianity, which is why we need to be precise when referring to "they" as just the radicalized elements and not the overwhelming majority of Palestinians who are now on the receiving end of something they had nothing to do with.

Most of the Palestinian victims of Israel's counter attack will have had absolutely nothing to do with the attack on Israel. Just as the Japanese Americans who we rounded up and placed in internment camps during WW2 had absolutely nothing to do with Pearl Harbor, didn't know it was going to happen, and were equally outraged by it. But we labeled all Japanese as "they" without thinking, and it ended up being another stain on our history. Let's try learning from that, and avoiding such mistakes by targeting the specific groups who are actually responsible for things rather than doling out our own genocide on an entire race in retribution for the actions of some very specific groups. We need to judge people by their actions and by the actions of groups they choose to associate with, not by their race, and not by their religion.

The term "they" is far too vague here, and is already causing retaliatory atrocities against the wrong people, just saying.

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PowerStroker wrote:

The same is true with Christianity, which is why we need to be precise when referring to "they" as just the radicalized elements and not the overwhelming majority of Palestinians who are now on the receiving end of something they had nothing to do with.


 

Woah... let me stop you right there.

1st, you refrence "Palestinians" -- can you show me "Palestine" on a map? wink

2nd, the people living in "Gaza", who you refer to as "Palestinians" have given cover to Hamas and these "radicals" you speak of. Do you speak fluent Aribic? How many Mosques you been to PowerStroker? What do they talk about there? 

I'll also go so far as to say that when were at war with a country -- it's a good idea to keep an eye on the people from said country! At the time, rounding people up was the best option they had... for gawds sakes they had to drop two big boys on them! They sent their own people on suicide missions to bomb Pearl Harbor! It was serious $hit PowerStroker! We're talking WWII!

All that said, your dangerous thinking omits the fact that what you want to believe isn't necessarily what the reality is. The idea that radical factions in Islam want to kill Jews and destroy the West is "nothing new" is concerning. That level of ignorance is dangerous!

Never thought I'd have a liberal give me shit about using pronouns. 

If this shit is going down, praise the lord and pass the ammo! 



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The worst elements of fascist white Christian fundamentalism like the KKK and Proud Boys would very much like you to join their ranks. Should I therefore label you as "they" too now? Before you have even pledged allegiance to them or taken up arms or even done a single thing on their behalf?

Eh, actually, maybe you're right. You sympathize with them. Maybe that's enough for you to be blamed for their actions and share in any fate they bring upon themselves. The thing is, there are a great many Palestinians who don't even sympathize with Hamas. Palestinians who are more innocent than you. Shall they share the fate of people they don't even sympathize with, simply by virtue of living in the same area? An area by the way, that they aren't allowed to leave even if they wanted to? Shall we pass judgement and capital punishment against people who haven't done anything wrong simply by virtue of where they have been forced to live their entire lives without any choice in the matter?

I know it's hard as Americans to imagine this, because we have had so many freedoms our entire lives. We can move about freely within our country and leave our country with ease. This has never been the case for the Palestinian people who have been born into what essentially amounts to an open air prison. Let us not pass judgement upon an entire race based on the actions of a radicalized few.

Vengeance is not Christian, nor is it Muslim, or Jewish. Only the radicalized of each seem to think it is. Let's be a little more enlightened, learn from history, and not join their ranks or even sympathize with any radicals ok?

 



-- Edited by PowerStroker on Friday 13th of October 2023 08:03:06 AM

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PowerStroker -- again : "your dangerous thinking omits the fact that what you want to believe isn't necessarily what the reality is."

But you don't have to get all huffy about it! At times I suffer from the omission of what I want to believe not necessarily being what the reality is... if one ever needs proof of this, they need not look any further than the Webcrawlers thread!

Bottom line here is you are trying to speak for other people, thru the lenses of them rose colored glasses. You ever seen that movie "independence day" where the aliens are positioning their ships and broadcasting a countdown timer so they can strike in unison at the same moment all over the world? You can't say this isn't a possibility -- even as far fetched and Hollywood as it may sound! How well do you know Muslims, PowerStroker? Do you have a lot of Muslim friends? Do they let you in close? I'd like to know what 1st hand proof you have that makes you comfortable enough to entertain these dangerous thoughts of yours. 

To me, prior to the bombings -- Gaza looked like any salty part of any major city... What you see happening could happen anywhere! And it does! Look at all the shootings we have here in this country! Usually it's just ONE PERSON who has blipped out killing and injuring a half dozen or more! All this refrence to Christians, the KKK and Proud Boys leave out other hate groups like BLM, The black panthers, Holy War terrorist groups like ISIS, Hamas, Al Qaeda, the Taliban and Islam! Why? Because you're just rattling another Liberal saber with your clear stereotypes that are solely indicative of Caucasians.   

What? You just don't like white people?

Did you look in the mirror this morning PowerStroker? biggrin



-- Edited by SELLC on Friday 13th of October 2023 10:50:16 AM



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International fugative for war crimes want's "Peacefull settlement thru political and diplomatic means"...

https://www.foxnews.com/world/putin-netanyahu-speak-phone-israel-neighbors-reaction-war-hamas-attack

You really can't make this $hit up... Putin calling for peacefull settlement, all the while he has a warrant out for his arrest everywhere in the world except axis of evil countries for war crimes in his ongoing war with Ukraine...

It's hard to tell who is playing who here... 



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Big argument. Biblical, everything. Who, where?

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Praise the lord and pass the ammo!



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You been awful quiet PowerStroker... Wasn't it Biden who said silence is complicity?

What say you, PowerStroker?



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What's there to say? Hamas needs to die, and Palestinian casualties need to be avoided otherwise this problem will continue in perpetuity.

Also we need to be replenishing Israel and Ukrane's weapons. Congress needs to authorize funding for both, and we need to increase production of the military hardware needed by both countries, as well as increase our own stockpiles. I would also suggest preemptively equipping Taiwan with the things they need in the event China invades.

This stuff costs money, but failing to make the investment now will end up costing us a lot more.

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Sure, we already been over most of the preliminary stuff, but this situation has legs!

I'm curious if your theory about trying to differentiate Hamas from the Palestinian's that elected them can even hold water! Don't you think it's about 2,023 years too late for that? You know there are 21 Arab/Muslim countries over there in the Middle East... you know how many of them want to accept Palestinian refuges? 0 -- ZERO! 

As far as Taiwan goes, well I wouldn't mind taking a few hot Taiwan cuties to help carry the load around here!

Sure it cost money... but in a World War it's a classic "run what you brung and hope it's enough"... The reality is we are depleting our arsenal, and one can wonder if we even have the resources to replace them as quickly as they are going out the door! Never mind our strategic reserves of oil are staggeringly low levels! Will we see another oil crisis of the 1970's? Should everyone run out and buy a Tesla so they can have options in such a situation? And how much is buying a Tesla going to do for American car manufactures who employ Union workers? I'd say Tesla has many tentacles all over the world, but so do the so-called American Car Manufactures! Can we REALLY call Stellantis an "American" car manufacture? 

No doubt letting the Axis of Evil run roughshod all over the Middle East, Asia and Europe would end up costing WAY MORE... but look what is going on inside our own country right now PowerStroker! We have a certian individual representing your state that belongs to a squad of "Jew-Haters"... Do you think if the "squad" represented a majority of our Government that they would stop at just hating Jews? I doubt it... Next they would be on to White Christians, and so-on... And that is a FACT that upsets most conservatives as we try and co-exist with such ignorance from the left. If you think Muslims hate Jews then you have never been a black man in Dearborn Heights during the 80's and 90's... or even today for that matter. I'd like nothing more than to suggest it's just your states fault, but we got one here in Michigan too!



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Hamas isn't the government of Palestine. the Palestinian Liberation Organization is. To say otherwise is like saying the Proud Boys are the government of the United States.

One can be sympathetic to the Palestinian plight without "hating Jews." Speaking of which, there is no shortage of hatred toward Jewish people on this site, and it didn't come from me.

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You can call it whatever you want to call it PowerStroker! The bottom line is that said government is currently Hamas in party... I don't think they even have a dual party system over there, it's so intertwined in religion that the thought of an opposition party would not be tolerated.

I also love how you skip ALL the hard questions in my previous post, and instead make some BS statement that there is no shortage of hatred towards Jewish people on this site! Show me ONE post where people are openly calling for the extermination of the Jews from the River to the Sea! The bottom line is that these people will never stop until there is an Islamic Caliphate ruling Israel -- built on the bones of all the dead Jews! 

I totally get how people want to see this situation defused ASAP before it gets out of hand, but if it's not dealt with properly it will spread to the USA! With the loose boarder enforcement it could already be here! We just seen what one crazy nut-job with a rifle did in Maine! Imagine if your girl Omar and all of the people who obviously outnumber voters in her district took up rifles and slaughtered your friends and family! Would you be so quick to call for a ceasefire, until such time that said hostile occupation was neutralized? I know it's extreme, but you know -- first they come for the Jews -- and PowerStroker says nothing because he's not Jewish... Then they come for the Blacks -- and PowerStroker again says nothing because he's not black... then they come for you and by this time there isn't anyone for you to say anything to!

Recently here in Detroit a Jewish religious and political advocate (for Democrats of all things) was stabbed to death and bled out as she either walked, or was placed in a park just a short distance from her house... blood trails found at the scene confirm this! Anyway, they were so quick to say there was nothing to support a hate crime -- but look at the door to her apartment!

 wolldoor.jpeg

BLM sign in her window along with "Detroit Stands with Israel" 

Yet police have no motive? C'mon! 

Still to this day there has been NO UPDATES as to who was responsible... makes you wonder if perhaps it was hate related -- and it's just not being reported as not to encourage further hate crimes.

If you ask me, when something makes the local news like this and there isn't any updates or follow up -- something is wrong! Even for Detroit! I'm sure it made national news as well!

I'd like you to explain how one can be sympathetic to the Palestinian plight without "hating Jews" -- please explain to me how you can be sympathetic to a group like Hamas and not hate Jews? 

Make no mistake! Hamas runs the bingo in Gaza! And if it's not going to be Hamas, it will just be some other far right Islamic Jihadist group with a different name. Basiclly your Arab proxy Wagner and Blackwater groups. 

I hear a lot of talk about a two state solution -- but do you think the Palestinian people would respect whatever boarders are drawn up? How many more wars before they could even agree on that? It's clear the Palestinian people feel all of Israel is theirs -- and nothing less than another Holocaust would satisfy them! And these are the people you want others to sympathize with? Dude you're nuts! Hamas is still sending rockets over into Israel! They are still holding over 200 hostages! 

I think it's quite clear where all the Jewish hate is coming from in this site! It's coming from you! Explain how you can sympathize with the Palestinian plight and NOT hate Jews! 

 



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The overwhelming majority of Palestinians and Israelis are innocent bystanders. It's the extremist's that cause the problems. Congresswoman Omar doesn't seem like the violent type to me. Sure she probably sympathizes with Palestinian side of things far more than the Israeli side, but I highly doubt she appreciates Hamas. Just as in a dispute between America and Russia, I would be more sympathetic to the American side, but I don't appreciate the Proud Boys. We need to avoid painting an entire race with the broad brush of its worst elements because among our race are some pretty bad people too.

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I'm sorry... did the Proud Boys murder, rape and cut off the heads of any Jews? Or anyone else for that matter? Did they take over 200 hostages across the boarder? The answer is NO, PowerStroker! So there were a few decorative guillotines on site for J6! None of them were ever used! Heck, this time of year (Halloween) lot's of people have decorative guillotines in their front yards! 

This crazy idea you have that Israelis bear any of the burden for the initial invasion are preposterous! Israel isn't going to give into the demands to stop their ground invasion by Hamas under threat of hostages! Israel is just going to keep destroying Gaza until the Palestinians there wake up and either work towards releasing them, or there is nothing left! That is the bottom line here PowerStroker! Israel is not going to load a plane full of cash and send it to Hamas like Democrats like to do with Iran! You REALLY don't get it do you, PowerStroker?

I must also correct you when it comes to your Bob Ross... Islam is not a race... Neither is Judaism. I think you better check your palette, pal. 



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Um, as you may recall, the actions of the Proud Boys resulted in the deaths and maiming of Capitol police officers. Some of them have probably raped and maybe murdered some other people over the course of their "careers" too. They didn't take any hostages yet, but they attempted to take members of Congress hostage and potentially murder them.

I don't believe I said Israel shouldn't have a ground invasion, just that whatever they do should make an honest effort toward minimizing civilian casualties to the extent possible. I understand Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields, and some can't be avoided. To be clear though, the hostages are held by HAMAS which needs to die. Regular run of the mill Palestinians have nothing to do with this and should be spared if at all possible. I realize your extreme right wing nature causes you to look for any excuse to exterminate an entire race or religion of people, perhaps "ethnicity" is the more accurate term here, but please, try to be better than that. If not for you, then for the Jewish people who have already endured such a thing, or for the innocent Palestinians who are on the verge of enduring something too.



-- Edited by PowerStroker on Monday 30th of October 2023 07:29:59 PM

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PowerStroker wrote:

Um, as you may recall, the actions of the Proud Boys resulted in the deaths and maiming of Capitol police officers. Some of them have probably raped and maybe murdered some other people over the course of their "careers" too. They didn't take any hostages yet, but they attempted to take members of Congress hostage and potentially murder them.


 

This whole paragraph above needs a citation... "probably"? Is that how Democrats also handle indictments on ex-Presidents? lol... Probably... pfft, give me a break! Nobody took any members of congress, and it wasn't just the Proud Boys who were there protesting! If we were to exetend your way of thinking to every group of people who have protested in DC -- then any protest could be considered an insurrection! That's a real slippery slope PowerStroker!

In my eyes it's the Palestinians who are responsible for cleaning up their radical element that is placing them in grave danger! I have very little sympathy for them because they ALL knew the response from Israel would be devastating! They want people like you and the rest of their "ethnicity" as you would call it -- to also have sympathy. They would have absolutely have no issues with the rest of the world being at war! Muslim nations should condemn this radical element, but they are not! That is a serious problem!

My understanding of Islam is that anyone who is not a Muslim is an infedel. There is no tolerance for ANYTHING that runs contrary to their religious beliefs. To me, intolerance has no place in a free society. 

With regards to the Jewish people... I have seen some supporting Palestine, and when I see that it just blows my mind! Yet at the same time it's very easy to see why so many were tricked into getting on trains to their deaths. I just can't understand it! Your squad pals are calling for another holocaust! Trying to suggest the "From the river to the sea" chant isn't representative of wiping out the entire Jewish population in Israel! That is just INSANE! When I see this sort of deception from members of congress it becomes REAL clear to me who the problem is!

Eleminating Hamas and other like minded radical factions isn't an attack on their religion! But should they refuse to condemn these groups and start giving them aid -- then I'm affraid that most of the Middle East will become rubble. Look at Syria, Lebanon and now Gaza! 

The USA isn't playing around... we already have two aircraft carriers and an Ohio class sub on standby! 

Hamas and all of Gaza knew damn well there was NO WAY it could take on Israel and it's alies... They did what they did because they knew the Israeli response would be so leathal that it would garner sympathy -- even though they drew first blood!

I'm not getting on that train to Auschwitz... but if you want to, I'll gladly pay for your ticket! biggrin



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A peaceful protest is not an insurrection. A violent one that actually attempts to obstruct Congress and results in deaths is. Nothing slippery about this slope.

Your "understanding of Islam" is only an understanding of radicalized Islam, which most Muslims aren't.

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I think you had better check your facts PowerStroker! The ONLY person who was murdered on J6 was a protestor by the name of Ashli Babbitt!

Five people died either shortly before, during, or following the event: one was shot by Capitol Police, another died of a drug overdose, and three died of natural causes, including a police officer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack#:~:text=Five%20people%20died%20either%20shortly,injured%2C%20including%20138%20police%20officers.

Furthermore, I wasn't aware there was a "New Testament" of the Koran... would you care to share this? Or is this yet another lie? Since you're such an "expert" on the Koran could you perhaps cite a SINGLE paragraph in the Koran that preaches anything in the ways of tolerance of others who are not Muslim? Just one please!

I think you're very foolish and partisan... Furthermore, I think that Tlaib and Omar PROVE without a shadow of a doubt that most Muslims share their radical views -- otherwise they never would have been elected! I don't have a problem with immigrants coming to the United States legally per-se... but when they refuse to assimilate and then elect radical shitbags in an effort to turn the USA into the shithole they come from -- I have a SERIOUS problem with that... You being from a shithole state, I don't expect you to have any clue what I'm talking about.

 



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Ashli Babbitt was a self defense action. Nobody gets to claim a murder for her when she was in a Federal facility without permission attempting to obstruct Congress and ignoring orders from Capitol Police.  The officer who fired the shot is known, and yet not charged with any crimes, why do you suppose that is? It's too bad more such examples weren't made.


Brian Sicknick was murdered.



-- Edited by PowerStroker on Tuesday 7th of November 2023 05:33:26 PM

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Umm... according to Wiki your boy either died of a drug overdose or of natural causes, your entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts... the only "murder" listed is by capital police shooting dead an un-armed woman.



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SELLC wrote:

You been awful quiet PowerStroker... Wasn't it Biden who said silence is complicity?

What say you, PowerStroker?


 He's busy trying to add a Palestine flag to his nazi Ukraine flag siggie.



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The only people who believe that Ukrainians are Nazis, are the people who believe Russian propaganda. In fact, it is Putin who is acting like a Nazi, not the other way around. Don't forget who attacked who.

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Makes me wonder if this $hit going down in Israel is only to distract us from Ukraine. 

Seeing's how Israel is an official USA ally, Ukraine must be feeling the pinch. 

Didn't someone just approve another $hit-ton of money for Ukraine and Israel? 



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Well, Russia and Iran are buddies, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if Russia arranged for the Hamas attack in Israel.

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PowerStroker wrote:

The only people who believe that Ukrainians are Nazis, are the people who believe Russian propaganda. In fact, it is Putin who is acting like a Nazi, not the other way around. Don't forget who attacked who.


 Fact; Not Russian propaganda but fact. What you believe PS, IS THE PROPOGANDA from CIA and MSM. Research. MSM and CIA, wiki are NOT RESEARCH

Ukraine allied with German NAZIS in ww2, not mother Russia.

Nazi faction there never stopped, some did.

2014 Obama admin had Ukraine over thrown with a soft coup. 2014 Ukraine govt was killing it's own and blaming it on Russia, it never stopped

2015 McStain and Graham met with Ukraine govt. They "want to kill Russians" Graham, "we will bring all your concerns to the US govt". Look up the video "is Mccain their general?"

("it is Putin who is acting like a Nazi, not the other way around. Don't forget who attacked who.") Ukraine has been attacking, killing and trafficking Russians since 2014 (longer actually)

Back up to WW2. 4 allied powers won, US, UK, Russia, China. UN treaty article 106 and 107 allows the 4 to invade any country where nazism reared it's head again. Look it up, you won't find it on MSM. Any one, two, three or four can invade. The 3 of 4 only have to be notified, that's all, and they were.

Putin had every right. He eliminated over 50 bioweapon labs, 46 US funded. Blew underground child trafficking. organ harvesting labs and adrenochrome labs. Putin rescued over 50,000 children from tunnels. Recently there were mutilated children's corpses under BIDENS 200 acres in Ukraine with bio labs.

Ukraine troops, Azov in particular are full nazis. They have the Wehrmacht painted on artillery and tanks (black and white plus sign), they wear the death head logo (nazi concentration camp guards). They wear the twin lightning bolts on their collars. They are nazis.

I know you are a smart man PS. Yet you are brainwashed by media, cia, govt manipulation to believe anything they tell you to believe. Think it was Reagan said "people won't believe it until it is on TV"

Look up anything I said, read the UN articles. You will find where the true propoganda comes from.

They won't tell you, and you won't look but all the info is out there, UN, .gov sites .mil sites. CIA mocking bird and fake news can't cover it all up like they wish to, truth is there.

WE are in an alliance, US, Russia, China, Brazil, South Africa and one other. No not UK. Not our enemies, not what your god news tells you, there will be no ww3, all fear propaganda.



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https://rumble.com/v2fc29y-mccain-and-mcconnel-nazi-azov-leaders-war-for-your-mind-episode-246-with-ho.html

Actual footage of stain and graham meeting in Ukraine.



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We have no shortage of Nazis in this country, Should Putin roll on over here with his tanks next?

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Yo,

This will sum-it-all-up in a few minutes for y'all !

 

 



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PowerStroker wrote:

We have no shortage of Nazis in this country, Should Putin roll on over here with his tanks next?


 Truer than you know about Nazis here. 1945, Operation Paperclip. Nuremberg trial time. US "paperclipped" files of 1800 SS Nazi and brought them over here. Werner Von Braun was one.

Forgot to mention. Remember the soccer ball Putin gave Trump? All intel, everything on Ukraine.

The other 2 in the alliance are Noko and India.

Not possible? Heard of BRICS?  Brazil, Russia, India, China, Saudi..... and there are more now.

Any alliance members go help Zelenski? NOPE



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Rastus wrote:

Yo,

This will sum-it-all-up in a few minutes for y'all !

 


 Not for Powerstroker it won't. He has to see it on MSM



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The BRICS nations sure are some strange bedfellows. 

If you ask me it's just so the other four countries can get their cocaine out of South America...

Because if you ask me, Brazil is in the wrong hemisphere to be part of BRICKS.



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SELLC wrote:

The BRICS nations sure are some strange bedfellows. 

If you ask me it's just so the other four countries can get their cocaine out of South America...

Because if you ask me, Brazil is in the wrong hemisphere to be part of BRICKS.


 

LOL !

***You should note that these so called "BRICS" countries have nukes...This is the glue / common interest / evil agenda they share in common, not to mention nuke-waste lol !



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So what Rastus? Don't you get it? Our industrial military complex is just itching for some back-woods idiot over there to set off some old tech nuke to give us an excuse to test out a few of OUR new nukes -- that are now 100's of times more deadly than what anyone else on the planet has ever seen. You might just think this is hyperbole -- but trust me when I say the only way these idiots over there get on with their pathetic lives is that they don't know about it! 

Just think about it Rastus... what other country do you know of that invites everyone into their country (friend or foe) like the USA? I'll wait!

Things are never as they seem -- but the idea all we have to do is supply these people bombs and weapons to kill themselves sounds a hell of a lot better than having to send our people over there to kill them both! No doubt Russia and China want to act like them teaming up should be some big threat -- but when is the last time you got ANYTHING of quality from Russia or China? Be honest? 

The only REAL threat with China, Russia and the rest of them shit-pot dictatorship nations poses to the world is the fact the US will have to destroy most of the Eastern hemisphere should the shit ever REALLY hit the fan. That's a lot of fall out!

And that's just the flat out reality of it... regardless of what you read on the internet or the news. And before you start piping up about your Alien friends, they never dared get involved in the past -- so I wouldn't hold your breath they would in the future! Lest their dead little bodies be in some meat fridge at Area 51 with their grandparents.

Look... The USA is propping up Ukraine who has killed off more than half of Russia's conscripted army... You have Israel, with US backing -- in just a months time has overtaken Gaza and holding off ALL the Arab states while they do it... China hasn't invaded Taiwan because they know -- both financially and physically the USA and it's alies would knock their lights out! People aren't knocking down the doors to get into China, Russia, Saudi, Gaza or anywhere else on the planet like they are in the USA... why? Just think long and hard about it.  

I'm really getting tired of these dust ups all over the globe... it's got me in a bad mood! So I'd say fuck them, but they are doing a damn good job of fucking themselves!

Anyway... I suppose I've gotten it all out! 



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