2003 Powerstroke Diesel Frame Mounted FUEL PUMP - Auto-Trend Repairs and Service Information Forums

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

RE: 2003 Powerstroke Diesel Frame Mounted FUEL PUMP

Big Angry Hillbilly · User

Okay, I'm typing this real slow, because I know you read slow and can't understand it if I say it fast.

You went on a tirade about the way Ford parts were boxed/identified on said box.

I AGREED with you (make note of that one). I did a WHEEL BEARING, and it was labelled BRAKE REPAIR KIT on the box. Far from my first wheel bearing/hub assembly.

Pictures (alas, not drawn in crayon) attached.

Here's the box:

Here's the contents:

Hope this clears up my "first wheel bearing".

Your pal,

The Hillbilly.

-- Edited by Big Angry Hillbilly at 09:57, 2009-03-01

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

SELLC wrote:

I cant get over EastEnd's avatar.

I am still in the dark on this whole ESOF thing.

Big Angy Hillbilly just did his first wheel/hub bearing.

Some chick just tried telling me she could fix cars better than me.

I just turned down an invite to a party.

What the hell is going on!?

The whole damn world is choking on internet bullchit, and you guys are going to correct the problem by busting my balls? I opend this forum to help others and instead I get people throwing eggs! WTF is that!?

Where the problems enter.... when we profess to know what we are talking about even though we don't have a firm grasp on the operating concept or principals...

The HEUI injection system as used on the 6.0, for example. The ICP reports high oil pressure to the PCM (This is sometimes confusingly refered to as "fuel pressure"... erronious at best, The HEUI injector used on the 6.0 has an "intensifier piston" that translates oil pressure to fuel pressure seven fold... That is to say that 1000 PSI of high pressure oil will yield 7000 PSI of actual fuel pressure at the injector nozzle).

Anyway, ICP reports this oil pressure to the PCM. The PCM will command the IPR duty cycle to achieve "DESIRED" ICP. Again, actual fuel pressure at the nozzsle will be seven times the oil pressure.

This is explained in both the WSM as well as other publications that are FREELY AVAILABLE ON THE INTERNET.

ESOF on the SuperDuty.... a Rube Golberg setup if there ever was one. (Rube was a cartoonist that came up with complex ways to achieve simple tasks... one of my favourites in the "Star Weekly" when I was a kid). So many things that depend on other things happening - and (especially when we consider the auto locking hubs) - so many things that defy what we assume is "normal".

I was self employed for so many years... Family health matters decided that I couldn't give my business the time it deserved, let alone the burgeoning requirement for accurate documentation and the associated costs of the info.

Now, as a dealer tech and shop foreman, fielding the telephone calls that get passed on to me, I see no excuse nor reason to try to be "everyman". At least not without adequate documentation. To scrabble around in the dark wondering why something is or isn't happening is a fools errand.

You have been inundated with a number of techs that know the 6.0.... that know the 7.3... and, yes, that are on the front lines with the 6.4.. Not one of them will try to fix something without learning how it is supposed to work.

And that is what this is all about.... if you don't know how it works, how do you fix it? If you don't know how it works, is that your customers fault?

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Pogo is still at it. He just cant stop swinging on my nuts.

We need to be clear on something Pogo... I do understand the systems. Do you understand what the systems/componets cost to have replaced? My shortcomings with regards to repairs was PAYMENT. We all know what your "Short" coming is.

Angry, that a real big ole' wheel bearing there buddy. I was just pulling your chain about it being your first. I have to deal with that shit all the time, figured Id let you try it on for awhile. LOL

Maybe they call it a brake repair kit because of the fact the ABS sensor is built in? Maybe because the rotor sits on it. Still none of that changes the fact that its really a front hub assy. but I guess it does show some odd naming on Fords part.

Date: 12:48 AM Mar 2, 2009

SELLC wrote:

Some chick just tried telling me she could fix cars better than me.

The whole damn world is choking on internet bullchit, and you guys are going to correct the problem by busting my balls? I opend this forum to help others and instead I get people throwing eggs! WTF is that!?

No, you got it all WRONG AGAIN sellc, the chick "that would be me" is NOT trying to tell you that I can fix cars better than you. What I am telling you is that I don't end up stealing my customers' vehicles after I FUCKED them large while throwing parts at THEIR vehicles and at their EXPENSE while you kept pretending that you knew what the fuck was wrong with the vehicle. You were clearly way over your head trying emphasis on TRYING to fix a vehicle that you were and are not trained to do so. So do yourself a favor and take your head out of your ass, grow up, learn how to do it properly, quit cheating poor/decent people out of their vehicle, stop thinking that your shit don't stink and that you know MORE and BETTER than everyboby else out here.
Maybe if you quit being such a dick and stop to listen to some of what the other guys are trying to teach you, maybe you will learn how to become a decent mechanic instead of being a disgrace to the automotive industry.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

I have had just about enough of your little sewer mouth Ford Girl.

I also think your a real fine bitch to come in here making the claims you do.

I dont give a flying rats ass what you have to say with regards to our repairs. You can go shove that additude up your ass.

My shit might not stink, but I am pretty damn sure that YOURS DOES. I wont listen to people who dont know WTF they are talking about, especially when they wish to champion the non-payer with bullshit claims.

Acting like a litte kid does nothing for you. I could come in here with all kinds of stories about how your a big fat ass, whom stinks and does not shower or shave. I could also tell people about the gratuitous favors you do for all the techs whom help you with your Ford. I myself would never give you or your Ford the time of day. Outside of Angry, most of the people in here have not shown me $hit

As far as throwing parts at a vehicle, I dont do that. However if you were here in real life, I would have no problems throwing them at YOU! Regardless of the cost and weight. Matter of a fact, the heavier the better!

Do you think an ICPR would have a positive effect on your face if it were thrown full force? Maybe it would hit you in that big mouth of yours!

Dont talk shit in here about something that is none of your business.

I think its pretty sick that Pogo likes to run around acting like a girl. What a homo.

If Ford Girl was a real chick, I would imagine she would need a big Ford Diesel dump truck to get around! I think we got some photos of her too!-

Pogo is the dude in the blue jeans.

Here she is flexing the tail gate of PowerStrokers Ranger.

Fat Girl is trying hard to get this thread moved to the AFR. Then what will she do? No tricks allowed in the private forums! She has big balls for a chick.

-- Edited by SELLC at 13:17, 2009-03-02

Big Angry Hillbilly · User

All's I wanna know...is why do you have those pictures floating about on your PC?

Date: 09:47 PM Mar 2, 2009

SELLC wrote:

I have had just about enough of your little sewer mouth Ford Girl.

Sewer mouth? Can you read? If you can, try to read the "Sewer/garbage" that you just posted!

I also think your a real fine bitch to come in here making the claims you do.

I am a Bitch and proud of it too. Babe In Total Control of Herself, that is why I DON'T steal cars for a living!

I dont give a flying rats ass what you have to say with regards to our repairs. You can go shove that additude up your ass.

Of course you do, if you didn't you wouldn't have replied so rudely to my post.
What is the matter? The truth hurts doesn't it?

My shit might not stink, but I am pretty damn sure that YOURS DOES. I wont listen to people who dont know WTF they are talking about, especially when they wish to champion the non-payer with bullshit claims.

The only BULLSHITTER here is you. You like to claim that you are honest, yet how many people have chimed in here to prove otherwise?

Acting like a litte kid does nothing for you. I could come in here with all kinds of stories about how your a big fat ass, whom stinks and does not shower or shave. I could also tell people about the gratuitous favors you do for all the techs whom help you with your Ford. I myself would never give you or your Ford the time of day. Outside of Angry, most of the people in here have not shown me $hit

It is funny how we resort to saying useless things that have no meaning when we are pissed because we are being exposed for being a schmuck.
As far as throwing parts at a vehicle, I dont do that. However if you were here in real life, I would have no problems throwing them at YOU! Regardless of the cost and weight. Matter of a fact, the heavier the better!

You could try to throw the parts at me but REMEMBER I am not a vehicle so you won't be able to steal me from my owner/husband.
Do you think an ICPR would have a positive effect on your face if it were thrown full force? Maybe it would hit you in that big mouth of yours!

No I don't think it would have a positive effect on me but the IPR VALVE may have a positive effect on the 6.0L that you are TRYING to fix if that is the problem.
Dont talk shit in here about something that is none of your business.
When you are running a honest business, it is your business. However, when you are screwing people out of their vehicles after you run up the bill to an outrageous amount of money and on top of it you post it on the internet thinking it is funny that you weren't able to fix it for the RIGHT amount of money, IT IS EVERYBODY'S BUSINESS.

I think its pretty sick that Pogo likes to run around acting like a girl. What a homo.

Actually what I've been reading from Pogo seems very informative so far. I think there is a lot to be learned from him. Instead of bashing him you would do well to take some notes, since we know you won't be able to remember it all. I bet you could learn! Oh but I forgot, you don't want to learn, apparently you are right and everyone else is wrong.

If Ford Girl was a real chick, I would imagine she would need a big Ford Diesel dump truck to get around! I think we got some photos of her too!-

The photos that you posted on this thread only PROVES the kind of character that you are! Do you think people are going to want to do business with you if they see this?

-- Edited by SELLC at 13:17, 2009-03-02

Date: 09:49 PM Mar 2, 2009

Big Angry Hillbilly wrote:

All's I wanna know...is why do you have those pictures floating about on your PC?

That's a good question. I would be very interested in knowing that myself. confuse

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

This isnt some forum that is paid for by advertisers. Things in here can get ugly.

It appears that its OKAY for you to make assumptions, and slander my business, however when I form an opinion of what I think "YOU" would be like, you get offended.

You can pick apart what I say, but that wont change the fact you havent a clue when it comes to the repairs needed on the vehicle. I myself repair vehicles, however I get a little deeper than that, I build engines, I also run a business and take care of a family. Just like everyone else.

I dont need any of your bull shit, and anyone acting like you can keep their business because I dont have time for that $hit. There are people out there whom do not care for the dealership and if you cant stand that, then tuff luck. I keep a three month BACKLOG at ALL TIMES. You just cant come into my shop and see me, you have to make an apointment, and if you have work done on our dime, your vehicle will be used as collateral. If you do not pay, we will collect. Its no diffrent anywhere else.

Go back to where you come from, get your "husband" to service you. Do whatever, but dont run your trashy mouth in here about things you have no knowledge of, the Powerstroke Turbo diesel being one, my business another. I am sorry you cant afford a big Powerstroke truck, and the thought of having to pay to maintain exceed your budget and many others, but dont bring me your vehicle to fix, then try and stiff me on the bill. I got authorization for ALL repairs.

And tell me this, what about all the money spent on parts? All the money on labor for service rendered over the course of 6 months? What about all the money I had to pay an attorney? What about all the money I had to pay for storing/securing the beast? What about my time and money spent on the paperwork!? Where the hell do you get off lady!? Take your sass somewhere else. You make me sick.

-- Edited by SELLC at 23:03, 2009-03-02

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

Wow.... we can see that, after these little displays, you are a responsible adult....

Your only saving grace is that a thread was pulled off another server... A thread where you admitted to the world that you didn't know squat about the PSD... never considered that this was never a "Ford" engine... and couldn't put together a logical diagnostic process to save his life.

I recall you muttering something about the high pressure oil pump and the oil pressure gauge in the cluster.... "What could oil pressure have to do with injectors" or some such chuntering.

You use your unfamiliarity.... your ignorance of the operating system, to justify taking away someones truck... For 12G USD, you most likely could have put a new motor in this truck...

Not once do I see you seeking the assistance of TRAINED, EXPERIENCED people.... Instead, you visit a site populated with DIYers - "DUH... Ah dunno, Ah jes' trow parts at it till it startses".

When confronted, you step up to the plate with sophomoric name calling and adolescent pictures...

From where the rest of us sit, this poster is stating facts - and all you can do is rep-ly with insult and innuendo... These are the marks of a responsible adult and businessman?

We are a proud bunch and we are sick and tired of this trade being demeaned by the unknowing and unscrupulous...

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Your claims of a NEW MOTOR for 12K would not include injectors, turbo-up tube, brakes, tires, several oil changes, filters, ICPR, IPS, manifold gaskets, batteries, starter, converter, and the countless other items that were bad. You would have charged this guy 12K for a new motor, then another 8K for the rest.

Go feed your BS to someone who does not know any better. I too would be pissed if I thought all this time that I was king shit, only to be put in his place by an younger independent that can handle working on more than one format.

If you got issues.... Have a tissue.

Big Angry Hillbilly · User

A good used motor can be had for about $5k CAD. Comes with injectors, IPR, HPOP, ETC ETC. As for a CAT and up-pipes and all that business, the engine can run without that shit. I wasn't there, I dunno wtf was wrong with it.

I'm off to put heads on another 6.0 today.

I don't work on cars, I fix them.

On that note:

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Cmon guys, we should be nice to Rex, I happen to need his incredible diagnostic brain right now...

Hey Rex, I've got this problem and was wondering if you could help me with it. It all started with this damn 6.0 diesel truck that came in and wouldn't really run. I checked it for codes and got a P2285 Low injection pressure detected or something like that - so like any self respecting diagnostician, I checked fuel pressure. Fuel pressure seemed a little low - only like 52 psi which we all know is way too low for a diesel which needs more like 25000 psi to inject the fuel and overcome the cylinder pressures. I thought maybe there's something wrong with the fuel pumps, so I pulled both of the fuel tanks out and low and behold - no pumps present. WTF I thought. Then I did a little research and found the pump is actually mounted on the frame rail. So I put the tanks back in and replaced the Frame mounted fuel pump. Still only 52 psi fuel pressure and the truck runs like shit. I've tried filters, fuel lines, replaced all 8 injectors, all kinds of shit and still can't get higher than 52 psi. Now I'm in the process of replacing the fuel pressure regulator and injection pump - hoping that these parts will finally solve my problem. The Ford parts counter guy kinda looked at me funny when I asked for a 6.0 injection pump and fuel pressure regulator, but WTF does he know anyway, he's just a parts guy, and I'm a mechanic. Now I just finished removing the fuel pressure regulator and injection pump, but it seems there isn't even any fuel in them, just dirty engine oil. Do you think I have something seriously wrong here- possible case porosity allowing engine oil to mix and cross-contaminate with the fuel or something. I feel totally lost, and I've already spent more than 6 months, and over $10,000 of the customer's money with nothing to show for it. The lies I have to keep telling the customer to justify continuing this project keep me from sleeping at night. I'm obviously in way over my head, but If I do the right thing and send it to the dealer, I'll only be admitting how obsolete I really am. I'm just not man enough to do that so any help would be greatly appreciated. Rex, I desperately need your help because you're always in these situations, and by now you probably know how to handle these scenarios better than anyone else. PLEASE HELP ME!!!

And Rex, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you in advance for your diagnostic advise, and also to thank you for your service to our country Cptn. Rex "Sellc" Obvious.

-- Edited by PowerStroker at 17:00, 2009-03-03

-- Edited by PowerStroker at 17:32, 2009-03-03

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Thats real funny Powerstroker.

I guess what we have a photo of there is a HPOP and an ICPR.

Did you intall them items Powerstroker? Or did you pass by your mechanics bench and take a quick photo shoot?

Sounds like you need to man up, fix the problem and get paid. Just hope that when that time comes, your customer has the bucks. Lucky for me my truck only has one gas tank, and all my repairs fixed something. Hopefully you can figure it out real quick, I am sure your customer must love the Ford Escort you have loaned him, in exchange for his big Powerstroke. Bet he/she loves sending in that payment this month!

Have a nice day!

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Now I'm really screwd. Rex PLEASE HELP ME.

I finally finished replacing the injection pump and fuel pressure regulator, and now it's even worse than before. It still barely runs, and now it also has a bad engine knock, and shoots flames from the tailpipe. I don't know what the hell I did wrong. I was so careful... All of the leftover nuts and bolts could fit in one shirt pocket - which is a hell of a lot better than usual. I replaced every fuel system component I can think of, and it only made the problem worse. Now I've spent over $12000 of the customers money, and he really needs his truck back because he uses it for work. He even mentioned to me that he may not be able to pay for the repair. I have already received a certified letter from his attorney, and the Better Business Bureau is all over my ass on this deal. Now I have to dip in to the shop's petty cash to continue this nightmare because we're too afraid to call the customer again and ask for more money. I don't know where to go next, or what to replace. I'm running out of ideas. I think my next try will either be a turbocharger, or maybe a set of power window motors. What do you think Rex?

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

I dont know what to tell you on that one dude. I have never seen one spit out flames from the tail pipe like that before. I doubt window regulators are going to snuff that flame, but we have gone from bad to worse in here.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Well I've got good news, and bad news.

The good news: Rex you were right about it not being related to the power windows, thank you so much - you saved me from taking all of the doors apart.

Bad news: I finally figured out what the problem is after spending 12,000.00 and 6 months. THE CUSTOMER FILLED IT WITH GASOLINE. I contacted Ford engineering and they told me that the lack of lubricity in the gasoline has probably already damaged all of the fuel system components that I already replaced ie: injectors, pump, fuel pressure regulator / ICPR, injection pump. They also said that due to the volatility of gasoline, and how it preignites under extreme pressures - the engine may have melted pistons and scuffed cylinder walls as a result. This means I have to pull the fuel tanks out again, drain the gasoline, fill it with diesel, flush the lines, and replace everything AGAIN for a grand total of 23,855.69 with parts and labor. Then start it up and see if the engine is junk - in which case the repair cost will jump to about $37,500.00 if I go with a Ford reman engine.

The customer isn't happy, but fuck him... It's his fault for filling it with gasoline anyway. I just wish I would have figured it out before I destroyed all of those expensive brand new components. Oh well - live and learn I guess.

Anyway, thanks for the help Rex, you're a hero

Your pal,

~PowerStroker

-- Edited by PowerStroker at 18:14, 2009-03-06

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Amazing! Totally Amazing!

Glad you guys got that figured out. Should have been pretty easy once you got a smell of the gas. Then again seems like most of the damage was done prior to your getting it RIGHT?

If so, what an idiot. Thats almost as bad as going over 10K on an oil change. You got me beat on that $34K repair bill. However it does go to show Pogo is FOS with his 12K motor replacement claims. Thanks.

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

You're telling us that you can't see the sarcasm dripping out of Powerstrokers post?

Fuck the customer... he should know better than to take his truck to someone that doesn't know how it works.... As long as the customer has money, we don't need to learn a fucking thing? "Gosh, you mean I need to act and think like a professional?".

One of the very first checks we make - as 'professional' technicians - is fuel quality and condition. There are few things more basic to the operation of a PSD than fuel. I can assure you that powerstroker is NOT about to start throwing parts at any diesel engine without venturing into the BASICS....

He is an amazing tech, all right.... and I applaud him for catching you on something so fucking basic as fuel....

Maybe you're right... that freakin' Pogo guy is just a trouble maker.... we should be able to fuck over every customer we can - and we can do that because we don't need no fucking knowledge... we got tools and coveralls and that's all we need.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Well, now it's really gone from bad to worse for the customer. I finally finished up the replacement of the injection pump, injectors, lift pump, ICPR, filters (AGAIN). I pulled the tanks out and sucked the gasoline out. Then I reinstalled the tanks, filled with fresh Diesel fuel and primed the fuel system. I figured this was finally the moment of truth. Upon starting it I noticed it was vastly improved (no more flames from the tailpipe). The engine knock was still present though, and it smoked badly under acceleration. I figured maybe there were air bubbles in the fuel system that needed to work their way out, so I floored it and then the shit hit the fan. The damn engine locked up. I wasn't too worried because I figured I can still blame all of this on the customer having filled up with gas, but I still needed to determine the extent of the damage before giving him a revised-revised-revised-revised estimate.
There weren't any holes with rods sticking out the side of the block or anything, so I decided to pull the heads and see if the damage could be fixed. unfortunately that's not the case. The engine is fuckin toast. It has 3 melted pistons, scuffed cylinder walls, shrapnel everywhere, and severely pitted cylinder heads from the shrapnel. Then to add insult to injury, when I tried to remove the engine I had another problem. The fact that the engine is locked up made it impossible to access all of the torque converter nuts - meaning the engine has to come out with the torque converter attached. Unfortunately I didn't have the angle's right during the process, and I broke the front of the tranny off. Now the estimate to repair everything that is fucked now, including all the work I've already done exceeds $44,000.00

I have a feeling I'm going to need a new place of employment in the near future. Rex, are you hiring? I think I would be a great fit at your shop!!!

~PowerStroker

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

I can see where this is going.

Here is what to do next,

(1) Goto the drivers side
(2) Open the drivers door
(3) Take down your pants and place your dick in the door jam
(4) Close door with great force

Repeat as many times as needed, and be sure to take some photos. A video might be better. This is covered in the first chapter of the O3NERS manual.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

You know I would, but the thing is the truck is no longer in my shop. I stayed late tonight and finally finished up replacing the engine and transmission. The customer came and picked it up. He paid the entire bill of $44,000.69 and advised us that we would see him in court. Then he got in his truck, and as soon as he started to drive away, the entire vehicle burst into flames. I must have left a fuel line loose or something. Anyway the customer died at the scene of 3rd degree burns so I guess we won't be hearing from him anymore. Another problem solved, and I can finally move on to that Mercedes that's been on the back burner for too long. I don't really know much about Mercedes - but I'm not going to let that stop me. I am a mechanic after all... I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually.

About that job Rex... Are you hiring or not???

And who wrote "gullible" on the ceiling of your office?

-- Edited by PowerStroker at 01:35, 2009-03-07

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

You remind me of this other guy in here by the name of Zedd...

Sorry to hear about your customer, given the amount of time them firefighters took getting the hosed turned on Id be willing to say they must be in your crew.

Hey PowerStroker, you ever considered sand porting your intake manifold?

Check out the details here-
http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=91042&p=3&topicID=14209659

Let us know how it works out, ok buddy?

larryatsti · Veteran Guest

Dumb Ass...(REX) This whole fairy tail that powerstroker has put on you is about 12-14 DIFFERENT repairs that have been all piled into one story. The video with the flames out the tailpipe is just one problem Ford had with a calibration when the 08 6.4's came out. The fix from Ford a new calibration not having Gas in the diesel.

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

Larry, Pogo (the homo, I guess) was waiting for poohawk to ask where he could get a set of them nifty pipes... I guess he'll have to wait for someone to bring him a 6.4...

I just had a thought.... (pretty good for me since the guy with a dogs name feels I have no thoughts)... A mental picture, if you will - Rover... errrrr, Koda... RinTinTin... whoops - Rex!!! looking for a high pressure fuel leak by waving his fingers around the fittings and lines.... Wikipedia has a good definition for embolism.

PS has it down pat, though... as long as you have a pair of coveralls with your name over one tit... who needs smarts? After all, we're just guys trying to make a buck, right?

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

You can all count your blessings that the average person does not post in here for fear of being ripped to shreads. This saves you dealer techs from being put in your place by the customers whom have been ripped off by the dealer.

I think you should check around. Its not the independent that gets a bad rap, its the dealership, and rightfully so. Pogo thinks just because he works at the dealer, he knows how to fix things. Just like the 1000's of other dealer techs who FAKE it every day.

Its clear to see that once the warranty runs out on a vehicle, most people will switch to the independent. This means that to the customer, the dealership tech is a rip off. A small $200 job at an independent will likley cost $500+ at the dealer. And you have the balls to come in here and spew off at the mouth.

Many people feel that outside of having work done on the manufatures dime, a dealership tech is worthless. Think about it.

Sorry.

-- Edited by SELLC at 18:19, 2009-03-07

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

I THINK I know how to fix them? You make me sound like a shop foreman in a muffler store...

Actually, I do pretty good at what I do... I understand HEUI injectors - I understand ESOF - I understand that I need to be familiar with what I work on...

But, after a fashion, you are correct.... retail customers tend to shy away from most dealerships (ours has a healthy retail following because we do what others pretend to). We see many dealeships that are avoided by nonwarranty customers... and the reason is because those shops are staffed by people that don't take the time to learn their craft - that don't put any effort into learning about the product they are attempting to fix.

Dealer techs and independant techs aren't different races of people... the difference between members of the Powerstroke Mafia and others is that we learn about what we work on... we don't hose our customers down... For every tech like one of us, there are dozens of techs like you... With absolutely no idea of what iot is you are doing... but the chutzpah to go ahead and do it anyway...

Take a step backwards and review some of your history...

First you post "I once had a person on Powerstroke.org tell me the fuel pump was located in the fuel tank"

And then you post "You assume that I dont have manual, when infact I have the some of the BEST sources of information out there"

Fuck me, man... it's one or the other....

You post "I am still in the dark on this whole ESOF thing" but you rip into it anyway. All I'm saying is "If you don't know how it works, what are you looking for?". A wise person would consult "some of the BEST sources of information out there" to ensure he wasn't wasting any time or effort. Your automatic locking hubs do NOT work the way most people think they might.... and that is the kind of stuff that is going to bite someone in the ass.... the kind of stuff that will get Rex a new to him truck.

All the Mafia is after is for know-nothing wieners to learn stuff so that we aren't painted with the same brush as you thieves and charlatans. If you actually knew about the PSD, your customer would still have his truck, you would have made a handsome profit on the job and it would have taken a few hours instead of a year....

Instead, you are flopping around like a slough shark in a leaky boat on a warm day... you have the best info money can buy (?) but don't appear to use it...

And I still chuckle when I think about you and checking fuel quality... Powerstroker had your ass..... and you missed it. FWIW, you could be right. Us dealer guys have to check fuel quality.... You independants can always send the shit you can't fix to the dealer - right?

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PogoPossum wrote:
All the Mafia is after is for know-nothing wieners to learn stuff so that we aren't painted with the same brush as you thieves and charlatans. If you actually knew about the PSD, your customer would still have his truck, you would have made a handsome profit on the job and it would have taken a few hours instead of a year....

And I still chuckle when I think about you and checking fuel quality... Powerstroker had your ass..... and you missed it. FWIW, you could be right. Us dealer guys have to check fuel quality.... You independants can always send the shit you can't fix to the dealer - right?
________________________________________________________

I have gotten many jobs from the "Dealership". Usually because they were quoted some outragous repair cost for the simplest of jobs.

When the dealer runs into a problem that isnt in their books, they have to call the REAL tech in. This can take a REAL LONG TIME considering most REAL techs dont do the dealership thing. If your vehicle isnt under warranty there will be no "Special" tech sent out, and you monkeys will broom it with some buffed up repair bill and the suggestion to go down the hall and buy a new one. Not only that, you will take in their old car on trade, rip them off big time, re-fix for pennies, place on the used car lot, and wait patiently for the next 5 years for the oppertunity to repeat the process. All the while milking Ford for any and all TSB's and whatever else you can find.

Hey.... I dont blame you. Just doing your job. Im being honest!

So why the hell are you giving me a hard time? Because you know that I am not limited to just this Ford truck, like the many who count on them to make a living. It must really bother you that your information will not result in me "Kissing the ring", like the many others whom so often do.

-- Edited by SELLC at 19:38, 2009-03-07

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

Man there is some crazy shit going on at the shop, just had a 12,000 job go belly up, now I am stuck with this enormus 2003 F-250 Super Duty that will not for the life of me go away.

I mean this thing has been a thorn up my ass for over a year now! Keep hiring and firing people because they cant complete a job, and I hate paying people to show them how to fix cars.

To make it worse I went out and got myself stuck in the mud, cost me $290 to get pulled out by a semi wrecker, plus I lost a tire, and some fucker shot out my windows and stole my vanity plate! WTF

What a fucking week!

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

We all have our moments.

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

I cannot appeal to common sense if there is no common sense to appeal to. "We have our moments" is a pretty fucking cavalier way of treating those we wish to retain as customers.... FWIW, many of mine have known me for over 25 years. I let them keep their trucks and they keep bringing them to me for work.... They are happy - I am doing well...

I'm talking to a deaf man. He is so full of himself that he cannot see where he is going.

Had you asked the right person (or had you consulted the superior documentation you insist you have) the world would not be looking at you as one of the few dorks that thought there was a pump inside the fuel tank.... especially after seeing only two wires going to the tank unit.

Say what you want about me... it isn't going to make a difference because I do know what I speak. The ass we are trying to save is yours...

Shop foreman at a muffler store? "DING, fries are done".

I can hardly wait until you have your first 6.0 "no start".

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Trying to save my ass?

From what? confuse

P.S. My first 6.0 no start was a fuel pump. The second was batteries, the third was contamination.

-- Edited by SELLC at 21:14, 2009-03-07

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

SELLC wrote:

Trying to save my ass?
From what?

P.S. My first 6.0 no start was a fuel pump. The second was batteries, the third was contamination.

-- Edited by SELLC at 21:14, 2009-03-07

You have a treat coming your way.... Rotunda 303-765 will figure in your future. You can either let it surprise you (you can have two diesel trucks in your driveway) or you can learn about the stuff you work on.

Insult me if you like.... At least I don't pretend....

We can be good at a very few things - or we can suck shit at most everything we try...

You just don't get it.... If you get good at what you do, you will do well... You think me inferior because I finally had the common sense to specialize. Amazingly, the decision to specialize was the best thing I have done. One of us is a fool.... I'm fairly sure it ain't me....

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Your giving me a Rotunda 303-765? Seems like just another brass fitting for the HPOP... WTF!? They cost a little over a quarter at the local hardware.

Pogo Says-
"We can be good at a very few things - or we can suck shit at most everything we try..."

Eh... Speak for yourself buddy...

If its broke, fix it.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Actually Pogo, I think that particular Rotunda tool may be too complex for our boy Rex. I was thinking this one would be a better fit for him... and even improve his diagnostic abilities.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Here we have Powerstroker trying to come on to a woman that needs a new fan belt.

Too bad he keeps that one finger out all the time.

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

Very astute, Rex... it is, indeed a brass fitting... Not exactly hardware store variety, though. It does thread into the HPOP.... it also threads into the ICP port.... and it also fits the fuel pressure test port on the secondary fuel filter....

Knowing what to do with the fitting makes a difference. Used properly, this tool can save a customer thousands of dollars over hit and miss "I'll replace this and see what happens" diagnosis.

The whole crux of your sudden popularity lies in the fact that people will be painting us with the same brush they use to paint you... Your picture is one of an untrained fool mucking about with a customers finances with reckless abandon. Our efforts have been towards directing you to gain suitable knowledge and documentation if you insist on working on these things...

You may think your precious Mercedes has a complex engine management system... In truth, the engine management system on your diesel pick up is so much more complex... And this underscores the importance of "dial before you dig"....

To wade into one of these engines without proper documentation or familiarity or assistance (training) is foolhardy... It will waste time and waste money - don't tell me you haven't seen that....

Here in western Canada.... (a tid-bit for you) door rates exceed $100/hour - many independants and big box stores are hesitant to cross that C-note line and brag $99.95/hour.... but they make up for it with "hosing the customer down".

With these kinds of labour costs, not knowing the system at hand is a display of rampant stupidity. With these kinds of labour costs, the customer has a right to expect that we know what the fuck we are doing and that we aren't surfing the internet looking for advice from guys that live in a PepBoy commercial.

What part of acting like a professional don't you understand? You have a cavalier attitude towards MY profession... your actions and the actions of those like you make those of us that are serious about our careers and our customers look like assholes... and we are sick and fucking tired of it....

-- Edited by PogoPossum at 16:25, 2009-03-08

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

What I am sick and tired of is YOU hiding behind the customer like you dont rip them off on a daily bassis... You did say you worked at a dealership right? Well thats enough said.

Nothing you say will change the fact "Dealerships are overpriced", and many of them "Lack skill outside of the book". Need proof? Try taking a 20 year old Ford into the dealer and see what happens. Be sure it has a little rust and some worn paint, then you will see just how quick these dealer guys get stupid.

Big Angry Hillbilly · User

I'll speak up on the 20 year old Ford thing.

When that 20 year old Ford was put into service, I was likely 2 or 3 years old. And I can count on ONE hand without using my thumb, or all of my fingers the guys at my dealer that would be able to fix that truck/car, myself included.

I made my own high pressure oil system test tool (well, the other diesel tech at work made 'em) out of the discarded HPOP plug you get when you change the STC fitting on 05-up trucks.

And our door rate is over a hundred bucks and we're in SW Ontario.

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

SELLC wrote:

What I am sick and tired of is YOU hiding behind the customer like you dont rip them off on a daily bassis... You did say you worked at a dealership right? Well thats enough said.
Nothing you say will change the fact "Dealerships are overpriced", and many of them "Lack skill outside of the book". Need proof? Try taking a 20 year old Ford into the dealer and see what happens. Be sure it has a little rust and some worn paint, then you will see just how quick these dealer guys get stupid.

Poohawk.. I am not hiding behind any customer.... I am trying to be that customers champion... That customer trusts his tech to be wise in the things he endeavours to repair. That customer trusts his tech to be honest, trustworthy and reliable.

As has been mentioned.... take an old truck to a dealer store (or almost any store) and your chances of having someone on hand that has any experience with that technology is going to be somewhere between slim and nil.

Is this where you pretend to understand terms like choke pull down, choke break, choke pull off.. want me to keep going? I don't expect my youngsters to understand these terms nor do I expect them to understand the mechanics of the system. Why? Because we don't fucking work on them.

I don't expect my youngsters to know or understand why MB likes high caster numbers - because we don't fucking work on them...

There's a lot of things I don't expect my youhgsters to know....

What I do expect them to know is the product we work on... I expect them to know it inside out. I expect them to look a customer straight in the eye and give him a truthful answer. They have the choice of being a tech in our store or pretending to be a tech elsewhere.

You have accused me of ripping off customers on a daily basis... these are the same customers that have known me and trusted me for nearly 30 years. And you judge ME based on the way you treat those unfortunate enough to come to your store.

Rex, you talk me down because I prefer to know the systems I service... You think you are great because you stumble around in unfamiliar territory. You accuse me of fucking customers over based on your lack of knowledge.

I cannot argue with someone that is that full of himself. You defy logic... you defy common sense and you defy human decency. I feel sorry for anyone and everyone that has the misfortune of dealing with you - be it employee or victim (oops, I meant customer).

You are one piece of work, mister....

Big Angry Hillbilly · User

HEY, Pogo, I can fix a carburetor just as good as the old fellers at the shop!

But I'm...."different"....

I had a 1980 Malibu with a 11.25:1 406 CID small block, AFR 220 aluminum heads, solid roller cam, 750 street dominiator, on a Holley Strip Dominator intake, with a 4-speed super T-10 behind it, and a 9" ford with 4.56 gears

That was my high-school ride.

Ran 11.0's on the motor, mid 10's on the jug.

Like you said though, I can count on ONE hand the amount of guys I know in this trade that can fix/adjust a carburetor/choke/non fuel injected system.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

It appears that anything said to Pogo is on deaf ears. He is clearly bias twards the dealer. He claims you can either be a tech there, or act like one somewhere else. LOL

Well thats just fine, I am well aware of the systems, I am able to repair them, and even find enough time left over to BS with you.

I am a peice of work? Thats real nice considering I dont even know where the hell you come from. One day you and youre free speech deprived grease monkey mob shows up on here out of the blue and yet I got to deal with it knowing you are all just starting to come out of your shell from being opressed everywhere, because naturally your all just a bunch of smart ass mechanics whom cant resist a good argument.

Boy if I was in Canada I would drive out and pull your trailer off its foundation with my truck. Hows that for some "Work"?

Ford Girl · Veteran Guest

SELLC wrote:

This isnt some forum that is paid for by advertisers. Things in here can get ugly.

It appears that its OKAY for you to make assumptions, and slander my business, however when I form an opinion of what I think "YOU" would be like, you get offended.
Let's see what the definition of SLANDER is!
SLANDER the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame and damage another's reputation.
So there you have it, it is NOT "slander" if it is TRUE, and everything I have said so far is true and is being SAID by all the REAL mechanics that are posting here.

You can pick apart what I say, but that wont change the fact you havent a clue when it comes to the repairs needed on the vehicle. I myself repair vehicles, however I get a little deeper than that, I build engines, I also run a business and take care of a family. Just like everyone else.
Build engines? Well if the way you repair vehicles is any indication of your abilities I am not sure I would want to trust an engine build by you or any other work you do for that matter! It doesn't matter if I have a clue or not, it does matter however how much of a clue YOU have if you are in this line of business.
You take care of a family? Do you have any children? If you do, what kind of example are you setting, that daddy steals for a living?
By the way.... before you try to make any "smart" remarks, yes I have 3 children of my own and I try to set the best example I can. I teach them not to lie, cheat or steal. I teach them that respect is earned. You obviously have lost a lot of respect by a lot of people. I wonder why?
I dont need any of your bull shit, and anyone acting like you can keep their business because I dont have time for that $hit. There are people out there whom do not care for the dealership and if you cant stand that, then tuff luck. I keep a three month BACKLOG at ALL TIMES. You just cant come into my shop and see me, you have to make an apointment, and if you have work done on our dime, your vehicle will be used as collateral. If you do not pay, we will collect. Its no diffrent anywhere else.
You are right. If the customer cannot afford to pay their bill, they have no business bringing a vehicle to be fixed. When they can't afford the repairs and bring it to someone to fix it, loosing their vehicle is totally their fault. However, when the "mechanic" who is supposed to repair the vehicle has no clue about what he is doing, or is supposed to do and takes 6 months trying to fix it in the meanwhile spending/racking up a bill of $12000.00 for the customer to pay, then I say that it is NOT the customer's fault but the mechanic's fault. It is unfair to the customer and it is disonest too. The right thing to do, would be to be honest and tell the customer that you can't find what is wrong with their vehicle and that you are not comfortable with throwing parts at it hoping that the real problem will go away. I am sure that the customer will value honesty above all else. There is nothing wrong with admitting that you don't know the answer, what IS wrong, is screwing the customer under false pretenses that you repaired the vehicle, and charge the customer for ALL the UNECESSARY work that was done!
Go back to where you come from, get your "husband" to service you. Do whatever, but dont run your trashy mouth in here about things you have no knowledge of, the Powerstroke Turbo diesel being one, my business another. I am sorry you cant afford a big Powerstroke truck, and the thought of having to pay to maintain exceed your budget and many others, but dont bring me your vehicle to fix, then try and stiff me on the bill. I got authorization for ALL repairs.
Anyone who has a vehicle that big obviously has a legitimate purpose for it. Otherwise, it would be a huge waste of money when a Ford Explorer Sport Trac would serve the purpose just as well. I would be hard pressed to believe that you got authorization for ALL the repairs. Anyone with just a little bit of common sense would have had alarm bells ringing in his head, wondering what the hell was taking so long for the vehicle to be repaired and definitely how much this would cost.

And tell me this, what about all the money spent on parts? All the money on labor for service rendered over the course of 6 months? What about all the money I had to pay an attorney? What about all the money I had to pay for storing/securing the beast? What about my time and money spent on the paperwork!? Where the hell do you get off lady!? Take your sass somewhere else. You make me sick.

And who's fault is it that it took 6 months to throw parts at it while trying to repair it? No, you have it all wrong. YOU, make me and everyone else here sick!

Now Rex, since you LIKE me so much for rubbing the truth on your face, I would like to tell you 2 more things and I am sure you are going to love the second thing! LOL

1st . I am NOT picking apart what you wrote like you accuse me of! It is just that in your replies to me the things that you wrote in the different paragraphs are so interesting that in order for me to reply truthfully, I needed to break it down individually.

2nd. (This is the one you are going to like) Since you complained about me answering here as an "Anonymous" person, I decided to join the PowerStroke Mafia and become a member of your site. I figure if me and you are going to be exchanging answers and "information" I should at least be part of your site, don't you agree?
-- Edited by SELLC at 23:03, 2009-03-02

-- Edited by Ford Girl at 22:44, 2009-03-11

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Yab-Yab-Yab

Is that all you do? You must be a woman, but I swear you must be all the same person.

Anyway to answer your question, Yes I have a family, and yes this family WILL get paid. Ill run your entire fricking mob down if you owe me money and my kids are instructed to do the same.

A grown man authorized repairs that he could not afford to pay. He lost the truck. That is the end of it. I dont want to hear any more bullshit about it.

Ford Girl, I could drive any car I wanted to. I can fix just about anything with wheels and some things without! I would have NEVER purchased a POS Ford myself. I got stuck with this truck, and apparently all the assholes whom drive them.

Anyone looking to champion the non-paying customer can post their name, mechanic number and business address. I will then seek out poor folks whom need charity repairs and send them your way.

Your whole MOB is nothing but a discrace. Some days I would like to ban you all, however I am practicing tolorance in this life, so I can only smear your face in the garbage that Ford produces/rebadges rather than crush/ban you.

-- Edited by SELLC at 00:07, 2009-03-12

Mafioso · Rookie

AHHHH.... What a wonderful lively discussion. Now unfortunately, or fortunately depending on how you look at it I have the distinct privelidge of working with this PogoPossum fellow on a daily basis. As far as working for a dealer no one strives to rip off customers.. there are always unfortunate incidences where things go south. Me being a service manger 1/8 Pogo's age and 1/24 pogos old man wisdom I have still seen and delt with several of these INDI shops screwing customers and have it end up on our door step. I myself am not a self proclaimed diesel tech but have had my fair share of work thrown on my lap when I worked in the shop. In the last year of being the manager I have seen the local fountain tire charge a customer 10000.00 for a no starton a 2005 f350 6.0l, that finally got towed to our shop after the customer paid the bill. truck died on the road and they started with head gaskets because a Interne Forum said it was a common problem, then proceeded to replace the high pressure pump still not start. must be a ficm replaced that. still no go, replaced 8 injectors and high pressure oil rails under valve covers. still no go phoned me and asked for advice, asked what icp pressure was and got what is that as a reply. I hung up. three days later this truck showed up in front of our shop. three minute in the parking lot with a scanner icp was ZERO psi. they were close to the problem but the new stc fitting with the new hpop looked different so they put the old one back in. no o-ring in fitting. this shop as well as two others in town told the customers they could fix their trucks. spent thousands of dollars and fixed nothing. each one towed to us was a easy fix. I'm not saying dealers are the best and everyone else sucks. I have come across many INDI shops that have some of the smartest techs you will ever meet that could walk circles around any tech I have met. But these guys don't rely on the "ADVICE AND SUGGESTIONS" of a public web forum. They spend years taking Manufacturer coarses and proper training for the work they wish to accomplish. private forums such as the secret powerstroke mafia site are great places to get REAL advice from REAL techs. Forums such as this one are great places to show stupidity and ignorance to the masses.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Is that what you think Mafioso? That this site is for the masses to show their stupidity and ignorance?

That means little to me, considering YOU and most of your CREW are the ones in here acting like idiots.

I have NEVER had to turn a car over to the dealership. I have NEVER sent anyone to the dealership, and I think its shows how arrogant the dealership is in trying to say they fix cars better than others.

It aint the tools or the dealership that makes the tech. You remember that.

Mafioso · Rookie

Oh my god do you even read anything before you open your yap trap you tool.

"I'm not saying dealers are the best and everyone else sucks. I have come across many INDI shops that have some of the smartest techs you will ever meet that could walk circles around any tech I have met. But these guys don't rely on the "ADVICE AND SUGGESTIONS" of a public web forum. They spend years taking Manufacturer coarses and proper training for the work they wish to accomplish."

Does it not say in there that dealers are not always right and there are other techs that are better than dealer techs. WOW you are a piece. I have spent the last three week reading the crap you shoot out, and I must say barely anything you say makes sense.

I have many friends that I went to school with that are amazing techs that never ever worked at dealers, many of them could put most of us to shame. As far as you NEVER having to send cars to dealers, just going by what YOU have typed you replace parts till customers loose their ass and the vehicle becomes yours. So yes you have NEVER turned a car over to a dealer. Good for you do you want a Cookie.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

What kind of Cookies do ya got?

Mafioso · Rookie

Choclate chip!

And no forum's are not for the masses to show stupidity and ignorance it is for the few who have no better way to show it.

As far as tools not making the techs you are right. One tech came darkening our door step 3 years ago who said he could diagnose anyting on any vehicle. He had one of the biggest selections of tools and scanners I have ever seen. Almost put our shop to shame. He couldn't diagnose a flat tire if he had to. He actually said that he used to fix check engine lights by taking the bulb out of the cluster. That is the sign of a rip off artist.

Every shop weither it be dealer or not has people that should not be there. I was merely showing an example of people that should not touch things they don't know how to fix and how public access to information is not the best way to diag an issue.