Powerstroke Oil Leak - Auto-Trend Repairs and Service Information Forums

Date: 12:26 PM Mar 13, 2009

Powerstroke Oil Leak

PieKiller · Veteran Guest

2003 would likely be a leaking ICP sensor. It's located at the top of the engine below the turbocharger. Camshaft positon sensors can also leak oil. Keep in mind, that just about everything that leaks oil on a 6.0 will run back and drip off the bellhousing. I've been working on these things since they came out, and I can count the number of leaking rear mains I've seen on one finger.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Hopefully it will just be an the Injector Pressure Sensor. I have also seen some leak from a bad seal on the oil cap. Its true that the oil seems to blow back and down on the bell housing. I have also seen head gaskets leak oil too, so lets hope its not a head gasket or a rear main! wink

Best to have it checked, or you can check it yourself by removing the wheel well insert and powerwashing the area. Once its clean you drive it for awhile and follow the oil up. Where the oil stops, there is the leak.

Good luck and be sure to let us know what it was.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

You've seen head gaskets leaking OIL externally? Very interesting, that's a new one to me. I'd be interested to know how many other Mafia members have ever had that one.

Oil leaking from the oil cap too huh? You must have some serious blowby Rex, better load the parts cannon with another 12K worth.

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Saturday 14th of March 2009 08:11:45 AM

Big Angry Hillbilly · User

There's no pressurized oil passages in the head....

disgruntled · Veteran Guest

SELLC wrote:

Hopefully it will just be an the Injector Pressure Sensor. I have also seen some leak from a bad seal on the oil cap. Its true that the oil seems to blow back and down on the bell housing. I have also seen head gaskets leak oil too, so lets hope its not a head gasket or a rear main!
Best to have it checked, or you can check it yourself by removing the wheel well insert and powerwashing the area. Once its clean you drive it for awhile and follow the oil up. Where the oil stops, there is the leak.
Good luck and be sure to let us know what it was.

Hmmmmmm....................... someone is going to have to explain to me the likelihood that oil is going to be leaking from the head gasket(s) on an overhead valve engine such as the 6.0L. Last time I checked, the rocker arms and all other moving parts on the cylinder head(s), gets its oil fed through the pushrods via the hydraulic lifters. Unlike an overhead cam engine, that has oil feeds that pass through the head gasket(s).

I agree with powerwashing the suspect areas and running the engine for 45 minutes or so, to isolate the suspect area/component. Being a 2003 model year, I agree with PieKiller that the ICP sensor (whom our buddy SELLC insists on referring to as an ICPS), is 99.9% likely the source of your oil leak. BTW, 2003 model years (and some early-build 2004 model years with 2003 engines) are the only year that have the ICP sensor located under the turbo at the rear of the engine.

Go to your nearest Ford dealer and order a 3C3Z-9F838-EA and 5C3Z-12224-A to get everything you need for the repair.

Date: 01:12 PM Mar 14, 2009

Wow rough crowd in here. Now I'm confused.
The guy that installed my tires said that it was the rear main seal.
The guy I talked to who works at a dealer said probably not the rear main, and it is probably a sensor.
SELLC mentioned headgaskets, and then some of you are saying there is no way the headgaskets are leaking. Now that you guys mention headgaskets, the dealer guy was telling me how his elbow was bothering him from doing so many headgaskets on the 6.0L Powerstroke Diesel.
What is the difference beetween the Injector Pressure Sensor and the ICP sensor? Do they both leak oil?
The rear main replacement job is $12,000? It can't possibly be that much money.
Thanks for the help. I'm not a mekanik. I just want to understand this stuff. We have 3 other superdutys in our fleet, so I'm just glad there is a place I can go on the web to learn about them.

Lance

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

Go with the tire guy.... but if a muffler guy says something different, you have a conumdrum.... That is to say... no... err... ummm yes.... I hope it isn't an expensive repair... but, if it is, bring it to my shop... I want a bigger holiday trailer and the truck I have isn't quite up to the task....

I have no idea about what your problem is, but I have better websites to go to than some "tecks".... There is "The Dismal Stop" or something like that... There are a lot of diesel guys there and they have all had their trucks worked on... they will know what we need....

Keep in mind that, in a real extreme deal, I might have to actually look at your truck....

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

You should listen to the guy whom was born into the trade. The one that got paid 50 cents an hour at the age of 6 to sort nuts and bolts, the one whom was rebuilding 400CI Pontiac engines with a turbo in his hand before he even got to be 10. The one whom has dedicated his life to the Automotive field.

This would not include Pogo.

But $1.50 at your local quarter wash sounds a lot better than the +$100 min. door rate at Pogo's "Stealership". Odds are you will get a more acurate diagnossis too! LOL

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

Lance wrote:

Wow rough crowd in here. Now I'm confused.
The guy that installed my tires said that it was the rear main seal.
The guy I talked to who works at a dealer said probably not the rear main, and it is probably a sensor.
SELLC mentioned headgaskets, and then some of you are saying there is no way the headgaskets are leaking. Now that you guys mention headgaskets, the dealer guy was telling me how his elbow was bothering him from doing so many headgaskets on the 6.0L Powerstroke Diesel.
What is the difference beetween the Injector Pressure Sensor and the ICP sensor? Do they both leak oil?
The rear main replacement job is $12,000? It can't possibly be that much money.
Thanks for the help. I'm not a mekanik. I just want to understand this stuff. We have 3 other superdutys in our fleet, so I'm just glad there is a place I can go on the web to learn about them.

Lance

Take your truck to Rex... take all the keys for it, too.... don't bother calling back.

He's all lawyered up, these days.

Date: 02:55 PM Mar 15, 2009

SELLC wrote:

You should listen to the guy whom was born into the trade. The one that got paid 50 cents an hour at the age of 6 to sort nuts and bolts, the one whom was rebuilding 400CI Pontiac engines with a turbo in his hand before he even got to be 10. The one whom has dedicated his life to the Automotive field.
This would not include Pogo.
But $1.50 at your local quarter wash sounds a lot better than the +$100 min. door rate at Pogo's "Stealership". Odds are you will get a more acurate diagnossis too! LOL

It's funny you should mention that. This is a family buisness. The guy who owns the shop grew up with a wrench in his hand always tinkering with stuff. I'm going to drop off the truck there tomorrow.

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

lance..... you are odd... very - odd

PieKiller · Veteran Guest

SELLC wrote:

+$100 min. door rate at Pogo's "Stealership".

I don't know about Pogo's door rate... but at my "dealership", the door rate is $80 per hour... something we had to do to get the work away from the "hacks"... but has been quite benefitial none the less.

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

I live in a small town... the hacks have identified themselves...

Our big problem is turn around time... we are booked two weeks in advance.

Out of frustration, customers resort to independants.... In a case like this, we can hardly blame the customer... but, the customer will become trapped...

The independant will fail to fix the truck on the first visit... I can't blame the independant... After all he is just trying to make a living... and if he pays for specialized tools and manuals. he is just gouging into his profits....

So the truck ran like a BOS (bag of shit) before and it runs like a BOS now.... But, the independant has time invested in this puppy - and probably more useless parts than he cares to admit (well... it runs a LITTLE better? what? we put lipstick on a pig and now we can take it home? - DUHHHH I fell off the boat yesterday....).

So, the independant says just give me a deposit and we can fix it later.... This is called "setting the hook". It is about this time that somebody flips the bail on the reel and the rest is history.

We are at, IIRC $110ish per hour. Given operating costs... and these operating costs are not limited to purchasing and maintaining adequate tools (including service manual and scan tool software subscriptions), providing premium factory training and incentives to our techs, we are far above the quality of service offered by local independants.

We could, I imagine, reduce our door rate to make us more attractive to the masses.... but we are already inundated with work... if we reduce our door ratre, some of our programs would have to suffer... training and tooling would be high on the chopping block...

As it stands, we offer better than average service... gosh, is that worth better than average price?

This recession we are now in needs to be treated carefully...

Hey, sailor... wanna get lucky?

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Hey Rex, One of my Fleet customers has a 05 E-series ambulance with leaky bedplate gaskets. It's out of warranty by mileage. I'm trying to save them money and was wondering what you charge for that job?

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Sunday 15th of March 2009 08:11:01 PM

Date: 09:07 PM Mar 15, 2009

Please don't take offense because I am bringing my truck to an independent shop for repair. I am a small buisness owner and I feel that it is important to support other local small buisnesses in my community. I'm just trying to help the little guy like others were willing to help me when I was getting my buisness off the ground.
If anyone of you ever open your own repair facility you will be very thankful for people like me.

Am I saving som money getting the rear main replaced at a independent shop verses a car dealership? Yes I am. With the money I'm going to save I will be able to get one of my smaller trucks tuned-up. Something that needs to get done before spring. I'm a buisness owner and need to look out for the bottom line.

Lance

disgruntled · Veteran Guest

Lance wrote:

Please don't take offense because I am bringing my truck to an independent shop for repair. I am a small buisness owner and I feel that it is important to support other local small buisnesses in my community. I'm just trying to help the little guy like others were willing to help me when I was getting my buisness off the ground.
If anyone of you ever open your own repair facility you will be very thankful for people like me.

Am I saving som money getting the rear main replaced at a independent shop verses a car dealership? Yes I am. With the money I'm going to save I will be able to get one of my smaller trucks tuned-up. Something that needs to get done before spring. I'm a buisness owner and need to look out for the bottom line.

Lance

You're missing the point completely. I don't think ANYONE of us dealer techs are taking offense to you bringing your vehicle to an independent shop to repair, instead of the dealership. Like both PieKiller and myself have stated, we can count on our hands how many rear main seals have been the actual source of an oil leak on a 6.0L.

What us dealer techs DO take offense to, is independent shops who proclaim to have a wealth of knowledge such as the the moderator of THIS forum (who went to the trouble of removing the fuel tank from a vehicle similar to yours, only to find out the fuel pump is located on the driver side framerail) tackling a repair and hosing the customer, but have the nerve to refer to OUR workplace as "stealerships", when in reality, the only one doing the "stealing" are guys like this.

-- Edited by disgruntled on Sunday 15th of March 2009 11:23:49 PM

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Hey Rex, my customer is still interested in your quote to do bedplate gaskets in an 05 6.0 E-Series Ambulance

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Bedplate gaskets huh? Maybe we can get him for a licence plate gasket also?

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Hey Lance,

I appreciate your desire to support local small businesses... Really, I do. I often make such an effort myself.

You mentioned your smaller truck needs a tune up. That is a pretty brain dead job, and I'm sure Rex can handle that without problems. Your 6.0 oil leak however is not so straight forward. First let me say that the vast majority of 6.0 oil leaks that appear to be coming from the rear main actually aren't. Second let me say that a 6.0 Rear main seal replacement requires 2 very specialized and expensive tools:

1 a 6.0 powerstroke rear main wear sleeve remover
2 a 6.0 powerstroke new seal/sleeve installation tool (3 piece tool)

Each one of these is several hundred dollars, it is highly unlikely that a backyard mechanic like Rex has them, or is willing to purchase them to do this job just once or twice - it isn't economically justifiable for our resident "Jack of all Cars."

This means Rex will "improvise" by trying to use a hammer and chisel to break off the old wear sleeve (probably nicking the machined surface causing worse leaks), and using a hammer and punch to install the new one. This is a guaranteed failure because the new seal must be installed with even pressure around its entire circumference if it is to actually seal properly. The only way to accomplish this without damaging the new seal, is with the proper tools that your local Ford dealer has.

Our resident master of all things automotive even refuses to believe there is such a thing as a bedplate gasket on 6.0 diesel engines. Lance I highly recommend you google this as a test of your local backyard mechanics' competence.

Click Here and look at the first picture. http://autotrend.activeboard.com/index.spark?forumID=91042&p=3&topicID=25229871

This is the facility that would be doing your 6.0 rear main replacement. There is no modern equipment, it is cluttered, shit everywhere, and anyone who uses a Mercedes for a work bench would probably use your vehicle as a toilet. Just take it to the dealer dude, the $10 per hour savings isn't worth it.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Powerstroker... You are so lame my friend.

You just explained how they been installing rear main seals for YEARS. Spare me your bullshit with regards to tools, because the only special tool we have here is YOU.

Just like the dealer would like you to think the $190 is what you will pay for the ICPR tool, the tool to install rear main seals can be purchased for less than $20. And we do have it.

Now about that Mercedes bench... I see your jealous of my $80,000 bench, however you should know that vehicle was being stripped for parts, thus explaining why there was "Lots" of parts lying around. The big truck could have fit in that shop, if it had not come at a bad time. It was an emergency for the company that owned the truck, so we squeezed it in.

Once again Powerstroker looks like a Bi-Polar spoon fed dealer tech, while he contenues to talk to himself thru diffrent screen names.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

SELLC wrote:

Powerstroker... You are so lame my friend.

the tool to install rear main seals can be purchased for less than $20. And we do have it.

Would you mind showing us pictures of your 6.0 rear main tools so we can verify that in-fact it is something other than a hammer?

Stripping vehicles for parts... Now THERES a sign of a quality shop ROFL

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Monday 16th of March 2009 02:01:53 AM

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker wrote:
Would you mind showing us pictures of your 6.0 rear main tools so we can verify that in-fact it is something other than a hammer?

Stripping vehicles for parts... Now THERES a sign of a quality shop ROFL

Well at the moment I dont have a photo of my rear main seal service kit, however I can assure you that its sitting next to the one that I have for installing and removing the early rope style as well. Im willing to bet you dont even know what that is.

As for stripping Mercedes for parts I think its quite clear WHY we salvage the parts on these cars. The price of an ECM for a Mercedes would make your Diesel Injection control computer look like a bargan. Hell just the ignition control module on a Mercedes cost more than $1000. Yes I have enough parts for the W126 Mercedes to build 3 more, in addition to the 3 we already have. I would also like to say that some of the parts on that Mercedes are also NLA. But I dont expect you to understand that.

May I remind you that Mercedes in the photo likley cost more than your HOME in 1991. Do you understand that?

Have a nice day!

-- Edited by SELLC on Monday 16th of March 2009 02:13:20 AM

PieKiller · Veteran Guest

Lance wrote:

Please don't take offense because I am bringing my truck to an independent shop for repair. I am a small buisness owner and I feel that it is important to support other local small buisnesses in my community. I'm just trying to help the little guy like others were willing to help me when I was getting my buisness off the ground.
If anyone of you ever open your own repair facility you will be very thankful for people like me.

Am I saving som money getting the rear main replaced at a independent shop verses a car dealership? Yes I am. With the money I'm going to save I will be able to get one of my smaller trucks tuned-up. Something that needs to get done before spring. I'm a buisness owner and need to look out for the bottom line.

Lance

I also do not take any offence to you taking your vehicle to an independant shop. The problem is, 6.0 rear main seals DON'T leak! Like mentioned a few times, the likely culprit is the ICP sensor. Not an expensive repair compared to the wasted money on a misdiagnosed rear main seal. A camshaft position sensor o-ring would be the next most common leak, also not expensive to replace just the o-rings. A bedplate however is not a cheap repair, but also not nearly as common as the ICP or CMP sensors, but far more common than a rear main seal leak. The ONE rear main seal that I have seen leaking (ever) ended up having an internal engine issue that was causing the crankshaft to wobble a little, and ended up needing an engine replacement. There is ALOT that can go wrong if untrained hands touch this engine. Trust me.

Hey, Rex... do you know what will happen if you loosen those 6 bolts behind the flywheel (intentionally or accidentally)?

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

SELLC wrote:
"Well at the moment I don't have a photo of my rear main seal service kit, however I can assure you that its sitting next to the one that I have for installing and removing the early rope style as well. I'm willing to bet you don't even know what that is."

I remember quite well thank you what a rope seal is. That is very old, and I remember a tool we called a "sneaky pete" we used to use to install them without removing the crank... but understand. In order to achieve the advanced Mafia status that the rest of us have, we had to start with the antiques as a foundation and not stop learning.

Do you have the rear main tools for a 7.3 too??? How about a 6.4???

~As good as some, WAY better than Rex

Big Angry Hillbilly · User

Dude...the 6.0 crank seals (front AND back) are a breed all of their own. The front wear sleeve and rear wear sleeve are installed WITH the seal using the special tool.

It's not as simple as it sounds, and you do need the special tool to get the wear sleeve off.

I've seen it tried before, it doesnt work.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Ding Ding Ding... More extra credit points for Hillbilly.

Your sneaky pete wont work on these seals Rex, but try if you must.

~I still want to see Rex's special seal tools, I'm sure he's still searching the internet for photos of them to cut and paste though.

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Monday 16th of March 2009 07:12:32 PM

PieKiller · Veteran Guest

BTW... have you guys read your broadcast messages this morning? They've just released an updated procedure for sealing these puppies up. I wonder if the aftermarket has access to this information...

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PieKiller wrote:
The problem is, 6.0 rear main seals DON'T leak! Like mentioned a few times, the likely culprit is the ICP sensor.

The ONE rear main seal that I have seen leaking (ever) ended up having an internal engine issue that was causing the crankshaft to wobble a little, and ended up needing an engine replacement.

What one is it Pie killer?

First they DONT leak, then you say you seen one leak, but justify it by claiming the engine needed to be rebuilt.

Friction pie killer... Its the main reason they have a sleeve in the mix.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PieKiller wrote:

BTW... have you guys read your broadcast messages this morning? They've just released an updated procedure for sealing these puppies up. I wonder if the aftermarket has access to this information...

Does this mean all of the ones you have done thus far have been done wrong? Should everyone that had a rear main seal replaced run in for you guys to have another go at it?

I wonder if the customers whom you have replaced rear main seals in the past have access to this information?

Oh wait... The rear main seal NEVER leaks according to you.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

SELLC wrote:

Does this mean all of the ones you have done thus far have been done wrong? Should everyone that had a rear main seal replaced run in for you guys to have another go at it?

I wonder if the customers whom you have replaced rear main seals in the past have access to this information?

Oh wait... The rear main seal NEVER leaks according to you.

Sometimes we have to replace non leaking rear mains as part of a larger repair.

Anytime the rear cover of the engine is removed to gain access to anything it needs a new rear main.

Date: 12:16 PM Mar 18, 2009

Well yesterday didn't go so good. I went to pick up my truck and the first problem was that they also had to replace a bad sensor. The ICPR sensor. They told me it was bad too. Then I go to my truck and it was leaking coolant. It was actually dripping on the ground and then stopped after the mekanik started it. The looked at it agian and tiold me that the egr cooler pipe is leaking and that it was caused by a bad oil cooler. I don't understand. That dosen't make any sense to me, but what do I know.
My Ford F150 had a spark plug that broke yesterday and they need to remove the cylinder head to get that out. So much for a simple tune-up.

BTW, the picture of the Mercedes is awful. It is a shame to treat such a beutiful car like that. How does someone end up using a $80,000 car for spare parts? Stolen maybe?

I'm not a mekanik, but I actually do know what a bedplate is. My 05 Ford Super Duty had it re-sealed under warranty.

Lance

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Sorry to hear about your bad luck.

Mercedes was being used for parts because a tree fell on the roof and it was totaled.

I am glad you know what a bed plate is, however the thought of such things ever going bad is somewhat disturbing. Outside of spinning the main bearing why would that part ever fail? If Ford could not figure out how to seal two flat surfaces, then things are pretty bad.

PieKiller · Veteran Guest

Lance wrote:

Well yesterday didn't go so good. I went to pick up my truck and the first problem was that they also had to replace a bad sensor. The ICPR sensor. They told me it was bad too. Then I go to my truck and it was leaking coolant. It was actually dripping on the ground and then stopped after the mekanik started it. The looked at it agian and tiold me that the egr cooler pipe is leaking and that it was caused by a bad oil cooler. I don't understand. That dosen't make any sense to me, but what do I know.
My Ford F150 had a spark plug that broke yesterday and they need to remove the cylinder head to get that out. So much for a simple tune-up.
BTW, the picture of the Mercedes is awful. It is a shame to treat such a beutiful car like that. How does someone end up using a $80,000 car for spare parts? Stolen maybe?
I'm not a mekanik, but I actually do know what a bedplate is. My 05 Ford Super Duty had it re-sealed under warranty.

Lance

Well, sorry to hear about your bad-luck. But, the ICP sensor was bad "too"... or was that the only thing that was bad all along. The EGR cooler to oil cooler connection hose is a pretty common leak point. Hopefully you didn't get charged more than 2 hours labor to replace it.

About your broken spark plug, if it is a 5.4L 3V engine, your local "dealership" has a special tool kit to get the broken portion of the spark plug out without cylinder head removal. It is common to break the plugs if the proper procedure is not used to remove the spark plugs. Unfortunately, these spark plugs are a little more complex to remove than most, and Ford has released a bulleting on the "proper" way to remove them. If it is not a 5.4L 3V, I wasted my time typing.

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

SELLC wrote:

Sorry to hear about your bad luck.

Mercedes was being used for parts because a tree fell on the roof and it was totaled.

I am glad you know what a bed plate is, however the thought of such things ever going bad is somewhat disturbing. Outside of spinning the main bearing why would that part ever fail? If Ford could not figure out how to seal two flat surfaces, then things are pretty bad.

It's not really up to Ford to figure out how to seal parts on an engine manufactured by Navistar. Just so YOU know, the bed plate is a unitized structure - it consists of ALL the main bearing caps, a main bearing cap girdle as well as forming the skirt of the block.... Aside from all the publicity, bed plate leaks are still fairly rare.

As for the new rear main crank seal for 6.0. No, I don't believe that any of the Mafia has been installing these wrong (although the installation lubricant was a little unique, though, IIRC, no different than the late 7.3s .. no, NOT engine oil, Rex). However, the seal itself has been revised and, for some reason, the seal kit that I have seen (came with a new rear cover) did not come with a revised installation procedure... The revised procedure was editted into the 09 Econoline WSM first and is being trickled down into the other online WSMs. FWIW, the installation lube has changed as well.

Any of these kinds of changes can take time to "trickle down" to some of the aftermarket info sources. Shit happens..... Consumers have the choice of visiting a "general practioner" for daily odds and sods or they may opt to visit a "specialist"...

The automotive aftermarket (the general practioners, if you will) fill an important role performing the more mundane tasks... However. it is becoming increasingly evident that many tasks that were once considered quite simple have become increasingly complex through the implementation of new and unique manufacturing and assembly techniques, the use of exotic materials (synthetics and magnesium are only two examples) and the burgeoning use of smaller fasteners torqued in interesting ways (consider the injector hold down bolt torque - extremely high for a bolt that small) and torque to yield fasteners designed to give us all bulging biceps.

More than ever, the tech is going to have to realize what he is working on.... if you can't tell the difference betwixt a 4R100 and a 5R110 (and why didn't they call it a 6R110 and end half of the confusion?)... what the hell is going to happen when some poor schmuck starts looking for the dipstick on a 09 half ton? And what is going to happen if he doesn't know that the fluid type stamped on the early "dipsticks" is wrong? And that the 6R70 doesn't take the same fluid as the 6R80? And that without specialized training and appropriate manuals there is every chance an unwary tech can do his customer a great deal of damage?

I can earn a decent living without having to pretend that I am "Everyman" and without putting myself into an untenable situation where any lack of knowledge on my part is going to have me working on a truck for how long?

Aircraft powerplant techs need to be certified for each powerplant they work on... I wonder why that is?

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PogoPossum wrote:
I can earn a decent living without having to pretend that I am "Everyman" and without putting myself into an untenable situation where any lack of knowledge on my part is going to have me working on a truck for how long?

Aircraft powerplant techs need to be certified for each powerplant they work on... I wonder why that is?

Really the repairs were quite quick. The sitting it did for the red tape, well that took longer than the repairs!

How many aircraft have you have come in for service in your vast amount of time Pogo? How many aircraft powerplants have you even seen in the flesh? What is the likleyhood that one may land on your dealership lot requesting service? I think that about covers it.

-- Edited by SELLC on Thursday 19th of March 2009 10:59:53 AM

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

With three A&P mechanics on the fire department, we did have some time to swap notes ( "across borders" if you like ). Y'see, wienerboy, not being a self-consumed blowhard, I never once said "I fix airplanes".... I do, however, understand some of the restrictions that can apply to that vocation....

Now for what you fail to consider - time and time again... (fuck, this is like trying to explain something to an autistic child.... ).. look at me, Rex.... pay attention.... It is when we are familiar with something and have formal training with it or its systems and/or subsystems that we are doing ourselves and our customers a favour....

You are so busy defending yourself that you have forgotten the web (not really sure if I meant THAT pun) of beginners questions you have left in your wake...

You have gone from wondering (publicly) what oil pressure has to do with HEUI injectors to being an expert... all in short order....

Your 6.0 rear main tools are next to your "rope seal tools". Odd... my chinese finger and the other small pieces that help are in a sandwich baggie.... tucked in a rubbermaid container that is also home to many other tools that are too valuable to discard, but of such little use that there ain't nobody gonna steal them. FWIW, among the last North American built motors that used a rope rear seal would be the 2.8 litre V6 used in many GM front wheel drive cars. This engine was a "throw away" engine... overheat it once and it was only ever good as a boat anchor.... If a connecting rod went out, it could induce hard enough forces to damage the cylinder block. But.... WTF do I know.... Apparently you feel I'm all about book learnin'... even though I have customers that have been coming to me for over thirty years.... One would think that, after this much time, I must own a whole parking lot full of cars and trucks I didn't understand.

As for pics of my tools.. in this marvelous computerized day and age, wouldn't we consider keeping a CD or two of digitized pics off site for insurance purposes? And, with the vailability of cheap storage media, we'd keep a file on the "host" computer at the same time....

I forgot, you are much too savvy for simple crap like that....

And the real icing on the cake... more than one of us saw "the thread" that unfortunately got pulled from the place you think we are from.... We have seen Rex at face value.... We have seen Rex try desparately to justify horseshit ( one of the things I try to drill into my guys - "tell the fucking truth" - in this way, we can fix it before it ever becomes a problem. If you lie, the customer will get involved... and it wont be pretty.

If you lie to me, I will come down on you... and I will come down on you HARD.... We all make mistakes... and we should all build from our mistakes (Fire Chief Alan F. Brunacinni - forgive the spelling - is a well known fire department/emergency services authority/author/lecturer... and he came up with....)... "fail forward". Mistakes are part of the human condition... The sooner we admit our failures, the sooner we can deal with them... the sooner we can assure ourselves that they wont be made again.

Time and time again, you stretch the limits of reason... You continue to wade into unfamiliar territory - praying that the "carburettor Gods" will smile down upon you and bless you with a "good hunt" (or the automotive equivalent of a timely diagnosis and a financially sound repair that will allow you to keep a customer rather than his truck).

I see you as being young... late twenties to mid thirties... I am unsure if your loving brides name is closer to "Bruce" or "Ruth"... I am hoping "Ruth because I see 2.3 children in your milquetoast, male chauvanist existance (Ford Girl jerked your chain that hard? Ain't she a "uppity biatch?") and I think you are just too stupid to realize that there are things that you (listen close) ... there are things that you don't realize that you don't know. The devil is in the details - and the details are gonna hang your sorry ass from the yardarm...

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

After reading this and all the other roller coaster style post from Pogo, one word comes to mind.

"Bi-Polar"

Now I am no Doctor Pogo, and I am not trying to take out your appendex, but you seem to fit the mold. Maybe it has something to do with your location, but it had nothing to do with the white furry bears Pogo.

Date: 04:19 PM Mar 20, 2009

Well guysI have to say that you told me. I didn't listen. I was trying to save a little money and I figured I was doing a good thing by helping the little guy by having him fix my truck. I think I have learned my lesson.

I stopped by the shop today to pick up my F150 and check on my F350. The F150 is fixed. It was n expensive tune up because plug broke and they had to remove the cylinder head to get the plug out. Today when I asked about it being removed in the vehicle, the mekanik started to get defensive and get an attitude with me. Maybe it couldn't be done in the vehicle, but the people at the Ford Dealer I was at today tell me they do it in the vehicle almost every day.
As far as the F350 with an oil leak, the rear main seal and the ICPR sensor was replaced. Then the EGR and oil coolers were replaced. When I got to the shop, I saw MY truck on the back of a tow truck. Apperently when the mekanik got done, he took it for a road test the truck just quit. He had to get it towed back to the shop. Then they have the nerve to start questioning me about what kind of fuel I put in the truck.

"Are you sure you never put gasoline in it? "
I asked if the tow truck driver could just tow it to the nearest Ford Dealer and the owner started threatining me. I ended up having to pay several thousands of dollars to get my truck back and then have it towed to a Ford Dealer.
This is the same truck that ran fine when I brought it there!!! I'm going to have to hire an attorney.

I was really impressed with the local ford dealer. In the shop wewre several ambulances from around here. School busses from the districts around here. I figure if these guys are good enough to fix a vehicle that is used in emergency situations, then they are good enough to work on my trucks. The service writer explained to me thet the tech that will fix my truck works on powerstroke diesels every day. He is an expert.

This was a really expensive lesson to learn. Thanks for everyone who tried to explain this to me.

Do you guys want to know the worst part of the situation? The part that makes me want to cry like a baby? When it was on the tow truck, I noticed that there is still oil leaking at the back of the engine.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Lance thats a good story buddy, however you can keep on dreaming.

Even the dealers magic vacuume tool to replace threads on stripped spark plugs has its risks. From what everyone else is saying, it sounds like Fords cant fix an oil leak either, so plan on being back there several times with no sucess.

You should also know there are some folks whom may feel diffrently about a Ford Ambulance, as in emercency situations they have left people for DEAD... Literally. Infact I think there have been several lawsuits stemming from it. The fact that you see many of these city vehicles at the dealer, rather than on the road doing their job, should say something to the normal person.

Date: 05:21 PM Mar 20, 2009

I didn't mean to offend you. I'm sure your a great tech. I actually did have the bedplate leak in my 05 fixed at the dealer. That engine is bone dry.

The point I was trying to make about the ambulances was that they weren't parked inside the independent shop. They were at the dealer because those guys are the experts on those specific vehicles. The guy at the independent shop is good at changing oil and replacing tires, but I guess the complexity of my truck was way over his head.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Lance wrote:

I didn't mean to offend you. I'm sure your a great tech. I actually did have the bedplate leak in my 05 fixed at the dealer. That engine is bone dry.

The point I was trying to make about the ambulances was that they weren't parked inside the independent shop. They were at the dealer because those guys are the experts on those specific vehicles. The guy at the independent shop is good at changing oil and replacing tires, but I guess the complexity of my truck was way over his head.

Lance... Your 05 was under warranty. Lets not try to kid anyone.. You had it done on Ford's dime, and so are all them brand new city vehicles. Usually the people that drive them city vehicles come see me for performance work, you know, the stuff the dealer CANT do.

My company does not get much city work I will admit. My Dad gets a bunch of city work, and I can tell you that once a city vehicle is out of warranty, its taken to the independent, as they have a budget also. When Emergency vehicles run out of warranty, most places will elect to buy one with a warranty, as to minimize the risk of down time, so the liability does not fall on them. It make sence, and soon as the repair cost exceed the monthly note on a new one, its gone, traded in on a new one, then sold to some other remote location by the dealer with a new warranty.

Some large city motor-pools will have their own techs, whom do nothing but service their vehicles. Usually this is true of School Bus, Semi Truck, and Postal vehicles. Even so they do nothing but fix their own vehicles. They too will send work to Ford if its under warranty.

Im not upset, and I have no problems with the Dealerships. If I wanted a dealership job I could have one.

-- Edited by SELLC on Friday 20th of March 2009 06:13:34 PM

Ford Girl · Veteran Guest

Letter to Rex! smile

Dear Rex,
I have a question for you! I heard from some of the Powerstroke Mafia that you are running a poll in the V8Cafe to get me banned! Is this true? I bet it is.... now why would you want to do something like that? I thought that you were not like "other sites" that banned people for asking questions, or in this case for stating the truth!

What happened to "Quote- My site is different?" Damn, did I really manage to piss you off so badly that you feel the need to ban me? Why are you so mad? Is it because I am a woman, or is it because I agree with, and support the "lessons" that the Powerstroke Mafia (including POGO) are trying to teach you, but you refuse to learn?
Now here is a REAL challenge for you Rex! Ban me and finish proving to EVERYBODY who read and post on this site that you are the nitwit they think you are! Keep me here and re-instate Larryatsti and prove that everything I have said so far does not affect you! confuse

Love, Ford Girl!

PS:. I can`t wait for your (loving) reply!

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

SELLC wrote:

Lance wrote:

I didn't mean to offend you. I'm sure your a great tech. I actually did have the bedplate leak in my 05 fixed at the dealer. That engine is bone dry.

The point I was trying to make about the ambulances was that they weren't parked inside the independent shop. They were at the dealer because those guys are the experts on those specific vehicles. The guy at the independent shop is good at changing oil and replacing tires, but I guess the complexity of my truck was way over his head.

Lance... Your 05 was under warranty. Lets not try to kid anyone.. You had it done on Ford's dime, and so are all them brand new city vehicles. Usually the people that drive them city vehicles come see me for performance work, you know, the stuff the dealer CANT do.

My company does not get much city work I will admit. My Dad gets a bunch of city work, and I can tell you that once a city vehicle is out of warranty, its taken to the independent, as they have a budget also. When Emergency vehicles run out of warranty, most places will elect to buy one with a warranty, as to minimize the risk of down time, so the liability does not fall on them. It make sence, and soon as the repair cost exceed the monthly note on a new one, its gone, traded in on a new one, then sold to some other remote location by the dealer with a new warranty.

Some large city motor-pools will have their own techs, whom do nothing but service their vehicles. Usually this is true of School Bus, Semi Truck, and Postal vehicles. Even so they do nothing but fix their own vehicles. They too will send work to Ford if its under warranty.

Im not upset, and I have no problems with the Dealerships. If I wanted a dealership job I could have one.

-- Edited by SELLC on Friday 20th of March 2009 06:13:34 PM

This would be a neat trick... lance never posted his miles and you state, irrevocably, that his truck is under warranty.... I'm not entirely sure that I'm NOT bipolar.... and I'm not entirely sure that you aren't, either.... All the same, I have a pretty low threshold for bullshit.... and I am not about to make statements I can't be sure of.

Nice to see you let that little cutie back in.... To you, Ford Girl is just another uppity bitch.... the the rest of us, she is a breath of fresh air....

OMG... I'll bet she is smart enough not to equate a bed plate gasket with a licence plate gasket.... WTF were you thinking when you stuck your foot in your mouth that fucking hard?

I must be a ijit cuz I unly workses on shat I knowwwsssszzz. Yoo kin laff at mee cuz I donz wurk on Murseedees bends... but I ain't familiar wiff them an so I donz preetenz to.

However, I do have a pretty fair grasp of many Ford products.... and this is the whole deal.... I work on those vehicles I am familiar with... I have enough of that work that I don't have to resort to whatever shows up in the driveway. Taking on anything and everything that shows up on your doorstep is a lot like admitting that you are fighting for your life.

Do NOT pretend to be something you aren't.... It's a lot like wrestling a pig.... you will both get dirty but the pig likes it....

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Larry is on a little vacation at the moment. Seems he took the bullet for Ford Girl as well.

Anyway I am not forced to fix whatever might turn up in my driveway, however unlike you, I am able to fix whatever might turn up.

As far as Ford Girl being a breath of fresh air, well thats just BS. Really she has baited breath and prolly smells like she's on the verge of TSS. Women really should shower more than once a week, even more so when its that time of the month.

Ford Girl · Veteran Guest

SELLC wrote:

As far as Ford Girl being a breath of fresh air, well thats just BS. Really she has baited breath and prolly smells like she's on the verge of TSS. Women really should shower more than once a week, even more so when its that time of the month.

I am tired of your childish comments, so let's clarify a few things should we?
Let me tell you about Ford Girl.....
I am Brazilian but have been in Canada 15 years. I am 29 yrs old. A law student who will be completing my course on April 24, 2009 and I currently hold a 3.8 GPA.
I am 5'4, I have a light tan complexion, wavy dark brown hair that is almost waist length and dark brown eyes.
As for not showering, I guess that you were describing yourself when you stated that!
Oh, and just in case you are interested in knowing how I really smell like, my perfume is called "Amber Romance" by Victoria Secret!
Now that you know what I am really like, you should stop speculating about looks and start thinking about how you can improve yourself from being such a shady mechanic. Now, before you go at it again, let me clarify something to you, I have NOTHING against mechanics, I think it is a decent job as any other one. So I am not downgrading the profession by any means! My hubby is an excellent tech and I am very proud of him!
As a mechanic you should be ashamed of yourself for not knowing what a bed plate is.
A bed plate is the lower half of an engine block on engines that don't use main bearing caps to support the crankshaft, such as the 6.0L diesel, the Ford 3.0L Duratec V6s and the Cadillac Northstar V8s, unlike the 302 V8 or the Chevy small block V8.....but since you are soooo "smart" I am sure you already knew that, RIGHT?

-- Edited by Ford Girl on Sunday 22nd of March 2009 02:45:21 PM

-- Edited by Ford Girl on Sunday 22nd of March 2009 02:46:11 PM

PieKiller · Veteran Guest

Well put!

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Ford Girl wrote:

A bed plate is the lower half of an engine block on engines that don't use main bearing caps to support the crankshaft, such as the 6.0L diesel, the Ford 3.0L Duratec V6s and the Cadillac Northstar V8s, unlike the 302 V8 or the Chevy small block V8.....but since you are soooo "smart" I am sure you already knew that, RIGHT?

Yes as a matter of fact, I did. You do realize that the bedplate is a "Main Cap" in reality. Its just an all in one version. I personally see no advantages to this design other than more places for the engine to leak. Sure they claim it makes it stronger, just like the old gurdles that they stuck on the 302's that would join all the main caps and promote stability by keeping the mains from flexing.

Im glad you let us all know what kind of perfume you wear, and the part about the long hair that comes down to your ass is sure to have the mechanics in here frothing at the mouth. Im glad you are proud of your hubby, and to be quite frank I am as well. After all he has to put up with you every day.

Good luck with your law school. Maybe now you can represent all the poor folks whom purchased the 6.0 LemonStroke.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

SELLC wrote:

whom purchased the 6.0 LemonStroke.

Grammar Rex Geez... it is supposed to be who, not whom.

I let it slide the first 20 times I saw you do that, but come on, If we're going to pretend to be a professional, we should at least speak like one.

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

SELLC wrote:

Anyway I am not forced to fix whatever might turn up in my driveway, however unlike you, I am able to fix whatever might turn up.

No matter how long it takes nor how much it costs, right Zippy?