2011 Super Duty Preview - Auto-Trend Repairs and Service Information Forums

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

2011 Super Duty Preview

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Texas State Fair debut of 2011 FSD Video

http://www.thefordstory.com/our-plan-progress/world-debut-of-the-2011-ford-super-duty/

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

So it seems that Fords is indeed making their own 6.2 Liter and 6.7 Liter Powerstroke engines. I didnt see any actual HP numbers on the Ford link, and to be honest I found the site quite hard to get details. I will say that the video's were awsome, especially the cut away of the engine running.

At first I didnt care for the front end of the newer Super Dutys, but now they are starting to grow on me. I love how they put "Super Duty" embossed into the grill, and the 2011 grill also looks mean as hell. I am still trying to get used to the stacked headlights.

I also agree that the interior is a marked improvement over the past. Things such as built in 110w power inverters, and 4.5 inch LCD monitors are something worth mention. I also like the design of the new interior, it looks very classy for a work truck.

Still trying to get exact HP ratings for both the 6.7 liter and the 6.2 liter PowerStroke, but I have found some nice photos.

I dont like seeing these Flex tube style up-pipes still being used, and ever more over look how SMALL the tubing is!? I wonder if these engines will put out the same power?

Still, I think your post is a good start. Thanks.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Trying to dig up some videos,

Interesting enough they are calling the 6.7 the "Scorpion" and the smaller 6.2 the "Boss". Figured it would be the other way around, but still no official HP numbers.

Also there does not seem to be a lot of videos about the engine as of yet. Slim pickings. Anyone else got anything?

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

The 6.2 is a gas engine that will probably replace the v10. No official numbers yet, but the 6.7 is rumored to put out around 400hp and 750 pound feet of torque.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Thanks for clearing that up PowerStroker.

I was thinking they had a 6.2 and 6.7 diesel. My bad.

This "Rumored" number of 400HP and 750 Ft. Lbs torque going to be base? Or is that for the high dollar "Tuner"?

My 2003 PowerStroke 6.0 put out 340HP and 560 FT. LBS or torque, but we both know it was de-tuned.

One thing is for sure, the new instrument cluster on one of these things is pretty sweet! Wonder how much of a pain it would be to do a dash swap? I really dont want any more car payments, and the new stuff is just so...... Well..... NEW!

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

SELLC wrote:

Thanks for clearing that up PowerStroker.

I was thinking they had a 6.2 and 6.7 diesel. My bad.

This "Rumored" number of 400HP and 750 Ft. Lbs torque going to be base? Or is that for the high dollar "Tuner"?
base, you would not want to try modifying something like this with a tuner

My 2003 PowerStroke 6.0 put out 340HP and 560 FT. LBS or torque, but we both know it was de-tuned.

you mean 325 and 560... What do you mean by de-tuned? Yours has about 100hp more than it's twin in an International chassis
One thing is for sure, the new instrument cluster on one of these things is pretty sweet! Wonder how much of a pain it would be to do a dash swap? I really dont want any more car payments, and the new stuff is just so...... Well..... NEW!
Probably impossible to make that cluster work in an older truck.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

I am sure it could be done, question is where the hell you going to find one? And even if you did, you would need the rest of the interior to match the dash, as I am sure this custer will not fit in the 03 dash.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Don't be so sure it can be done, it's not just a cluster-it's also a module that is involved in many body electronic functions. It is multiplexed with several other modules and probably wouldn't work in anything but the vehicle it came it. Sure, you could get some of the functions to work... like maybe the oil pressure gauge. But lets say the Speedometer works off the VSS sensor in the rear axle (which it probably still does) - but that sensor is only hardwired into the abs module and the abs module then converts the AC voltage from the VSS into a digital signal and transmits it to other networked modules like this IC which translates that signal and commands the speedometer needle to the proper position based on that data. If that is the case you would have a hard time getting the speedo to work unless you have the specific abs module that communicates with it, and no, they aren't interchangeable either with your truck. This is only an example of one of many modules it shares data with on the HS and MSCAN networks. Another issue is the tach which gets its data from the 6.7 pcm through the network. It's just not going to talk with your 6.0 pcm no matter how many wiring diagrams you study. And even if you could find a workaround for the aforementioned issues, the Cluster is one of the modules that has to configured with as built data for a specific vin. Good luck making it talk to your 6.0 pcm, it's just not going to happen, but feel free to buy one of these clusters and try it Rex. Just keep in mind this isn't some old rusty Mercedes with a speedometer cable. If you can pull it off I'll have an entirely new level of respect for you.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Look dude, I'm pretty sure I am not going to come across an entire 2011 interior, however if I did, I could make it work.

Also you should know that even the Mercedes produced back in the early 80's had speedo's controled by a speed sensor in the side of the transmission. There are many diffrent ways to skin a cat.

I am most positive that whatever wave form that RPM and Engine speed come out of their sensors, could be made to work with the functions of a newer 2011 cluster. Pretty much I am positive that if an entire 2011 interior was in my garage, I would for sure get the Speed, RPM, Engine temp, Oil Pressure and Trans Temp to display on it. Same with the turn signals ect. Its not rocket science. I have done MANY entire interior swaps and conversions. More than I can count on one hand. I must admit that I have never done so on a Ford Truck, however I would find a way. I assume that since the cabs are the same, the dash would just bolt right in, having everything would be paramount. The little LCD screen on the other hand would be next to impossible I imagine, considering the many features it covers arent even an option on a 2003.

Anyway as it stands I have bigger fish to fry, and this is still 2009, so even talking about this is just stupid.

-- Edited by SELLC on Monday 28th of September 2009 01:46:31 AM

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

I still don't think you get it Rex. Even waveforms are obsolete technology for controlling gauges. Now days they are commanded to a specific position based on data packets sent over the network from other modules. You woud need more than just the interior of an 11 model year vehicle to make it work. You would need to have the frame mounted Trans control module, Frame mounted Abs module, Smart junction box, and an 11my engine because the pcm that controls it contributes to the necessary cluster data as well. Give it up Rex. I stand by my statement that a 6.0 powered truck can not work with that cluster. No way, no how, keep dreaming.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Look, I am not saying that I'm seriously considering it. As mentioned before its only 2009, this truck isnt even due to hit the showrooms until next year.

I know that a lot of car companies are moving to fiberoptics and a network style of communication, I think they are doing this to save on the copper, however you and I both know someone is going to try it. Most likley wont be me, however I hardly feel it will be impossible.

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

Waveform?

Even your 03 is a network of several modules.... if the truck had a "full load" in the option department, you would count the PCM, transmission control module (internal to the PCM). the hybrid electronic cluster (instrument cluster module), the GEM, the vehicle security module, the 4X4 module, perhaps a Park Aid Module, ABS module, FICM and I am sure I am forgetting one or two....

These modules would communicate over one of several communications networks... high speed CAN, medium speed CAN, ISO, SCP... some cars had the ACP.

Around MY2004? (memory thing), the GEM was deleted and it's many of it's functions were passed on to the ICM... and other modules absorbed some of the other functions....

MY2008 saw the PCM and ICM nearly lock-step... a programming change in one module might trigger the need for a program change in the other...

This isn't "looking for a waveform".... this is parsing a computer data stream... A "bit" of information is broadcast over the communications network... the modules that need that info, take it... those that don't ignore it...

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Ok Pogo, I understand you would like to "Seem" smart, and once again you are found guilty of making something more complicated than it has to be.

I dont give a rat's ass how many modules may get reference signals, the bottom line is that at the base of any reciprocating magnetic pickup there will be a wave form emitted from the passing of a magnet over a reluctor ring.

Other things such as temperature, volts, oil pressure are simple enough as well, and need little to no explanation, unless you ask nicely.

Given the fact that a Diesel does not have an ignition system per se, it will rely heavily on crank and camshaft position to ascertain RPM. The transmission likely has a host of these reference sensors as well.

I appreciate your input, but I am not impressed.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Hey Pogo,

I have included a photo of what a "Wave Form" looks like. If you werent so fixated on that IDS spoon feeder, you would know the pro's use Scopes to check them "Sensors" that feed your many vast modules.

Here is a good read for you Pogo, see if you can put two and two together.

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=91042&p=3&topicID=12850144

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Shit Rex, the IDS has an oscilloscope function when used with the VMM, and it has much better graphics. I use it most often to check alternator waveforms to find shorted diodes.

Nonetheless you're missing the point. THE SPEEDOMETER IN THAT CLUSTER DOESN'T OPERATE OFF A WAVEFORM. It doesn't operate off any digital or analog waveform. The ABS module does, and converts that waveform into a binary datastream that is recognized by the IC and any other modules that need that data and it commands the gauge needle position accordingly based on binary data - NOT A VOLTAGE SIGNAL. Herein lies the problem. There isn't a way to fool the system into working in any vehicle that doesn't have all of the proper modules networked together. Your 03 Truck does not have compatible modules, and thus, it ain't gonna work bub.

The same is true with the temp gauge. The EOT sensor provides it's signal to the PCM. Any other module that needs EOT data retrieves it from the network in the form of BINARY DATA - NOT A VOLTAGE. Same with the tachometer - it is the PCM that sees the crank and cam waveforms, the Instrument cluster only gets engine speed info as binary data from the pcm.

It's called multiplexing Rex, look it up.

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Friday 2nd of October 2009 04:53:45 PM

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Tell you what PowerStroker, get me an entire interior from the next 2011 truck that pulls into your shop and Ill show you a thing or two.

While I am not an electrical engineer, its only a matter of time before the aftermarket brings out an adapter to work around these interface issues.

If you would like to be the first to know how its done, then make sure that interior youre sending me is black and complete. LOL

I am willing to bet the module needed to operate that cluster is built into the IP anyway. I am also willing to bet logic for that little LCD and the video is also burnt onto a chip that is located on the Instrument Cluster as well. Just a matter of powering it up, and figuring out the needed inputs.

I doubt you could even get a wiring diagram of that unit yet! So why act like you know, when clearly you dont.

-- Edited by SELLC on Friday 2nd of October 2009 07:26:51 PM

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

SELLC wrote:

I am willing to bet the module needed to operate that cluster is built into the IP anyway.

WRONG, it requires data from several external modules.

I am also willing to bet logic for that little LCD and the video is also burnt onto a chip that is located on the Instrument Cluster as well. Just a matter of powering it up, and figuring out the needed inputs.
Yeah, but some of it's inputs are binary datastream from external onboard computers, how are you going to simulate that Rex?

I doubt you could even get a wiring diagram of that unit yet! So why act like you know, when clearly you dont.

11my isnt published yet, but 10 is, and there are no dedicated inputs for vehicle speed, tach, or temp. All of that info is obtained from other external modules in the form of binary from the HS and MSCAN networks.
You can't make those functions work with this cluster on a 6.0 truck PERIOD.

There are however dedicated cluster inputs for oil pressure, 4x4 indicator, brake warning indicator, seatbelt warning indicator, fuel gauge, and compass... so it is conceivable that you could make some of those functions work, but not necessarily all.

In closing Rex, I will say in terms of some of the most basic "idiot" lights in this cluster, yes, you could make some of those functions work in your truck by looking at schematics and wiring accordingly.

Whether that means you're uniquely qualified for all things "idiot" - well.. I think Pogo and I have already formed opinions on the matter.

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Saturday 3rd of October 2009 12:09:41 AM

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Yes but the 2010 does not have the same engine or IP as the 2011 now does it?

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

True, but I highly doubt they are going backwards in the technology for the 11 model year

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

PowerStroker wrote:

In closing Rex, I will say in terms of some of the most basic "idiot" lights in this cluster, yes, you could make some of those functions work in your truck by looking at schematics and wiring accordingly.

Whether that means you're uniquely qualified for all things "idiot" - well.. I think Pogo and I have already formed opinions on the matter.

Sometimes I crack myself up ;)

-- Edited by PowerStroker on Saturday 3rd of October 2009 12:08:50 AM

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

See thats my point..

The 2011 cluster is cool as hell. I like the light blue needles. The LCD screen is also more eye candy. Shit its like Willy Wonka's eye-candy factory inside the 2011 Super Duty!

Right now Ford's has little umpa-lumpa's working 24/7 making them in China!

Bet Ford only pays $20 for that entire cluster. Sure they had to buy a few hundred thousand of them, but hey...

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

SELLC wrote:

Hey Pogo,

I have included a photo of what a "Wave Form" looks like. If you werent so fixated on that IDS spoon feeder, you would know the pro's use Scopes to check them "Sensors" that feed your many vast modules.

Here is a good read for you Pogo, see if you can put two and two together.

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=91042&p=3&topicID=12850144

WOW!!!! I'm impressed.... In that group of really shitty pics... I see a fuzzy pic of a VRS sensor.... You can even see the sig from the "missing" tooth. The trigger... What can I call it that you might recognize it... No secrets here, Sherlock....

So... the great Rex knows how to take a pic of a variable reluctance sensor.

Ooooooh... I'm impressed.

What you aren't comprehending.... each sensor has a "boss". This is the module that the sensor is "hard wired" to.... There are other modules that need the info that <this> particular sensor has.

The module that "owns" this sensor will broadcast the infromation over the appropriate network....

After that... fuck you....

You are a waste of time... a waste of oxygen and I'm not surprised that your daddy decided to stay with the lube chain...

You are dumb enough to be twins.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Hey Pogo, I know how anal you are about calling things the "Proper" name.

So knowing this I will mention that Mercedes calls these things reference sensors.

Also you should know that daddy runs his own shop, and is nearing 60.

I dont think he could have made it thus far, had he been a pussy like you.

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

Variable reluctance sensor... this isn't what the mnanual calls it... though the Ford training does refer to a variable reluctance sensor as a variable reluctance sensor simply because this is the electronic properties by which it works...

Have you always been this fucking dense?

While it may seem amazing to you, the VRS sensor has been a mainstay in the automotive world since Detroit started offering electronic ignition on production cars... The VRS sensor delivers a sine wave waveform... Sometimes, but not always, a VRS sensor will be "biased". A bias voltage is applied to the circuit and the fluctuations are measured.

The VRS sensor works through the properties of a magnetic field... the faster the rotaional speed of the magnet, the faster the magnetic lines of force move across the coil... this will increase the amplitude (voltage) of the sine wave... of course the increase in speed will also change the frequency - but I only added that to keep you from grasping at straws...

So... your daddy is approaching 60.... next July for me. Oh yes... I'm 59 as we speak... And I appear to have made it this far (wanna see my tax return for last year? and I did it honestly). Whoopee fucking shit....

So... your daddy has his own lube shop.... I discovered I am a much better mechanic than I am businessman... I don't have it in me to fuck people over and then spend a bunch of time trying to justify my actions to my peers...

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Not a business man? Well then you have no right being in the "Business" then?

Everything is a business deal, unless we are working on family members vehicles I dont see how you can seperate the two.

Pogo, I have never once looked down at you for working at the Dealer. You on the hand try to look down on people whom dont. This iis a significant indication that you are not quite "Over" closing up your shop. You are bitter.

It's okay Pogo, not everyone can hack both ends of the "Business".

-- Edited by SELLC on Sunday 4th of October 2009 03:33:12 PM

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

Fuck.... and here I thought we were all about fixing cars and trucks.... filling consumer needs.... charging fair recompense for services rendered....

I guess I was wrong....

So.... what happens to people that aren't into fucking their customer over? You just... like... suggest the first repair that comes into your head?

What happens when you own 47 trucks but your wife can't find a recipe for trucks?

What happens when you finally convince everyone that you contradict yourself far too often?

Fuck.... I forgot, already... we're in business... we don't have to do things right when we're in business...

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Your jealousy consumes you whole..

Big Angry Hillbilly · User

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

I guess Hillbilly is at a loss for words...

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Fords is really going ALL OUT on it's advertising for the new 2011 Super Duty.

It kind of makes you wonder what they have to prove? Or maybe its just the realazation that the 6.0 was a biscut. Either way, lots more videos are cropping up, many of them made by FORDS themself!

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

The 6.0 was nothing more than an interim motor... it was meant for nothing else than to fill a gap between the common rail DPF motor and the 7.3 which was much too "dirty" as well as difficult to adapt to the emissions requirements of the day - of course you will counter that with another discourse on how ineffective I am... and I will counter that with a statement to the effect that my employer and my customers have a different view... The people that need to be pleased are.... Others are simply jealous, Rex...

There are some techs that tell lies... about their manuals... their shops... their equipment...

You choose to belittle me because you have a lack of understanding regarding current production vehicles... odd... but you are the expert and I am the pretender...

Even something as stone age as your diesel SuperDuty depends on a computer network... module to module communication has squat to do with waveforms... You are going to have a real surprise when you get into lighting systems on the new crop of vehicles...

But.... what the fuck do I know.... right?

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Spare us all your bullshit Pogo-Jimmy.

They been saying shit like that since OBD-II come out. Every year its the same bullshit!

The 6.0 put Fords in their place! International was able to control the Ford Super-Duty for quite some time. It was to Ford's advantage to have International/Navistar as an excuse when the shit hit the fan. Now that Ford's is making their own Diesel engines they wont be able to point the finger at someone else.

Only time will tell, but you coming in here trying to say that the new line of trucks are too advanced for people to work on is a joke! Dealer techs been saying that shit for YEARS but as soon as the warranty runs out, guess where they get fixed?

Yeah thats right Pogo, people come see you because their shit is under warranty, not because you are a good mechanic!

WAKE-UP!

PogoPossum · RIP - Veteran User

I didn't say that these trucks were too advanced for people to work on... They will be too advances for YOU to work on...

Ford appears to be simplifying their onboard computer networks. It looks like we will have all the modules on either the high speed CAN or the medium speed CAN. At least we will be rid of the ISO, the SCP and the ACP networks...

Through the marvels of "book learnin'", I see that the APIM (accessory protocol interface module) is likely going to be the gateway module (this was the job of the PCM in years gone by). At some point in time, you will find that little nugget of info is going to save you and your customer a lot of grief...

What I have been saying all along is that these trucks (yes... even the 6.0 as well as the 7.3... for if you knew anything about the 7.3 DIT, you would already understand HEUI) are far too complex to repair without appropraite manuals...

True to form, you interpret the printed word to fit circumstances you engineer.... and lose grasp of what was actually said.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

yawn