SELLC wrote:

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Once I got the bill, which was a little over $5000, I soon realized the problem with the healthcare industry. The problems are with the overcharging of hospitals and doctors, not with the insurance companies as Obama would like to lead people to thinking.

What Obama should be doing is making legislation to prevent these hospitals and doctors from overcharging,

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The cost of medical care itself has held steady with inflation, and while the profit margins for hospitals are often negative, and require government subsidies to survive, the profit margins for health insurance companies often increase by double digits annually, yet they still feel the need to raise premiums at an average of 3-5 times inflation.  Sure most doctors easily pull in 6 figures after they spend 12 years in school and graduate with a student loan debt that often dwarfs the average mortgage.  What is also true is the former CEO of United Health Group- 'Dollar' Bill McGuire had a compensation package for 5 years of "work" which exceeded $700 Million dollars.  He didn't make that kind of killing by overpaying docs and hospitals or under-charging customers, he made it by actually killing.  This is the true un-regulated capitalism the Republicans have fought to create for 30 years, and only now are working class rank and file republicans like you, starting to feel the pinch of your own policies.  The question that will really determine whether you Rex, will survive in this economic Darwinism you have helped to create, is this...  Can you actually pull your head from your ass and see what mess you have created, or will your Cranial-Rectal retraction surgery be denied by your insurance company for the reason that it is a "pre-existing condition"???

SELLC wrote:

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You have it all wrong PowerStroker, about me that is.

I think I've got you pretty well figured out Rex.

What I feel is a problem is the bureaucracy that goes along with this "Solution" that Obama is trying to RUSH thru.

Since they keep having to change things in the plan its hard to keep up with all of the details. No one can say with certainty what it all means.

For example if someone has outstanding fines for not paying, will they be denied care? What means will they use to collect? My bet is it wont be pretty.

My understanding is it will be a new line on your income tax form.  Your insurance company will send you a form every year just like a 1099 form from a bank.  You enter the code proving you have coverage and then you put a "0" in whichever box instead of "700", and this will affect your refund or amount you owe by that much on your income taxes. 

Lets talk about the people whom will oversee the people whom control this legalized "Monopoly". Because thats what the government will have. I bet being able to sue for denied coverage will be impossible. Many legal monopolies like utility companies and such have Public Commissions that feel like they really work for the monopoly, rather than the person whom they are to protect.

Most utilities are legal monopolies because they bid on the right to serve a particular area at the local governments.  Often utility companies are co-op's and are owned by the customers.  For these reasons there is no reason to have anti-trust litigation because the local government can revoke their contract if they abuse customers too much, or in the case of co-op's the members (customers) elect their board of directors and directly vote on major issues.  In the case of the public option it would be owned by we the people through our government and run by the Department of Health and Human Services - an arm of the executive branch which has enormous oversight from congress.  If you choose the public option, and have a problem with it, you can contact HHS directly, and if that doesn't solve your issue you can call your congressman.  If that doesn't solve your issue you can vote him or her out of office next election.  And if that doesn't work you can always cancel your public option policy and get one from a non government for-profit company.  If you choose the public plan you will probably find that they are actually more accountable to you than a for profit company who is only accountable to shareholders.

What it all boils down to is having to talk to some asshole phone representative and get fucked around. 

You still will likely have to get prior approval for major procedures from whichever plan you choose, whether it be a private plan or the public option.  The public option is going to run very similar to the types of companies you're already used to dealing with, with the difference that they are a not for profit company that is accountable to the federal government rather than shareholders.

But instead of it being a utility company, it will be your health. At least now they HAVE to treat you, so if its that bad, you're going to at least get service.

Safety net hospitals will still exist.  This isn't a government takeover of hospitals in any way.  If you need to use the ER and have no money and no insurance they will at least "stabilize" you to the same standard that they currently do for people in that situation.

The only person here with their head up their ass is you PowerStroker. People like you never think about an objective, let alone several years down the line.

Oh yes we do, if we do nothing and leave things on their current path the US government will go bankrupt due to health care expenses in our lifetime due to insurance profiteering.

The self serving liberals of this Administration are not making public the intricate details of this plan.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3962/text
The aforementioned link will take you to the exact text of the merged house bill that will be called up for the entire house to offer and vote on amendments and eventually the bill will be voted on by the entire house of Representatives after their amendment process is completed. 
Currently it is on a 72 hour hold for congress and the general public to read before the amendment process begins.  The Senate will then merge it's bill and post it for us to read prior to their floor amendment process and vote.  Then the House and Senate leadership will meet in conference committee to merge the House and Senate bills in to one for both Bodies of congress to vote on again - this time on one single bill that is identical in both houses.  And yes you can read that version too once it's completed before it is voted on.  If it passes both houses, then all it needs is for President Obama to sign it in to law.  To say that we self-serving liberals aren't showing you the details is an outright lie, you actually have to have some intellectual curiosity and google the fucker you know.

By the way, I challenge you to find the death panel provision in that bill.  I'll save you the trouble Rex - there isn't one, and never was one.


If the government was going to mandate payment for a universal health care plan they damn well better be sending every American the same kinds of information that a traditional insurance company does. You know, it usually looks like a thick folder that explains the coverage, the amount you pay and all of the disclaimers. Has Obama, his administration, or anyone else in the government for that matter sent you ANY kind of details about a health care plan that you will soon be "Required" to pay for? And thats just it, fuck you, the take what we give you mentality with the added fuck you of "It's Required".

Shit Rex, that's not going to change at all.  If you buy a private company plan you're going to get a big folder full of information, and if you choose the public plan you will certainly get the same thing.  One of the reasons the public option won't be available until 2013 is because they need to set it up and bid on coverage contracts with providers just like private insurance companies do.  I haven't received my thick explanation of benefits from the public plan because I haven't enrolled yet, and it doesn't exist yet.  Get a clue would ya?

No I think that a TRUE free market, which has long since been gone with all the government intervention, would be very competitive. Just think when the government broke up the Bell companies (Telephones). Now we have many different providers.

You just made my point.  If you have no government regulation and just a free market, it will lead to a nasty monopoly like Bell.  Thanks to the government enforcing the Sherman Anti-Trust act and busting up Bell we now have actual competition and lower prices.  You're welcome!!!

No the real problem is the current cost for service. I dint think that regular private practice doctors are in the habit of overbilling, however hospitals are.

Private practice doc's and hospitals both over-bill to cover their expenses form all the free services they have to do because people can't afford insurance (due to the health insurance exemption from anti-trust regulation that the Dems are also going to fix in this legislation), and all of the free services they have to do because those wonderful for profit insurance companies deny payment for things like pre-existing conditions... Like your cranial-rectal inversion.

The government is the only people I know that can sell a business that will never turn a dime, and run in the red. At least with the insurance companies we get a choice, clear cut and dry terms and paperwork, the right to say "Your Fired!". About the worse thing that will happen is the medical field will now be able to hide behind bureaucracy, quality of customer service will drop.

You will still have a choice in insurance companies, you don't have to choose the public plan.  The only difference is that soon you will be required to choose something, and you will finally have a choice of something other than a sleazy for profit insurance company.  If you like your current insurance, you can keep it.

How about dental insurance? Does this new "Required" health care plan include dental? If not will Dr's be migrating to the free market "Dental" world once they are considered government employees?

Basic dental coverage is included this legislation.  You made a strange statement about doc's though, and how they will migrate to the free market.  All Docs are in the free market unless they work at a Military, VA, or other socialized clinic.  Just as private Docs and hospitals can opt out of accepting certain insurance, so too will they be able to opt out of providing to people with the public plan.  This is nothing new Rex, I'm sure your current insurance has a network of providers that accept your coverage.  If you go out of that network you pay more.  The same will be true of the public option if you choose that plan.

Just a few questions for you PowerStroker, of course thats after you pull your head out of your ass.

But I like it in here, it's warm and cozy and smells like roses!

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As usual you and your Democrat buddies make everything sound so good on paper. Implementation, and follow thru just happens to take place when ole' Obama will be running for re-election. Go figure.

I do appreciate your input, but I am still hung up on this "Mandatory" situation. Canada and England also have government run healthcare, however they do not charge per head. Something about charging everyone a set amount of money seems like bullshit to me. I guess the cost to be American just shot up at least $700 and thats just the fine.

By exercising your right to be free, you will be fined $700. That's real nice. I guess we can change the national anthem "Land of the free" to "Land of the fee" and the home of the brave. 

I think its "Nice" of Obama to go thru the motions, however getting Americans to agree to a $700 per head fee to be a citizen is not going to fly. Even if by some change Obama gets it thru the public will reject it when the time comes to pay the piper. When people finally realize the bottom line $$$ wise, it will just happen to be too late, Obama will have been re-elected.

There has to be a better way!

The Public option sucks ass. It turns America into a dictatorship, saying everyone MUST pay, or be fined. Thats not very American like. Sounds a lot like Hitler Germany to me.

Hopefully a good republican will come along and offer a "Real" insurance plan that keeps the insurance companies making money, while substadizing the folks whom cant. Seems to me it would be a better idea, considering no one is going to look back at Obama's efforts to pass law that requires Americans to pay for his ideas, let alone fine them if they reject/refuse them.

You better get your boys in check PowerStroker. The Public option is an outright violation of our rights. People paying top dollar for insurance SHOULD get special treatment, however those without should have all of the necessary care at their disposal, regardless what pre-existing conditions or money problems they have.

It is a proven fact that people whom are forced to buy something will abuse it. This will lead to long lines in the ER, and also wear down our doctors and medical infustructure for the people who REALLY NEED emergency care.

People will not forget how many lame brain ideas Obama and his Administration threw at the wall to get this healthcare passed. Bills and Fines will stick in the minds of many whom will grow to resent the Democratic party more and more. It wont be long before people are referring to Obama as that guy who tried to charge Americans for being American. His post Administration reputation will make Bush look like a Hero. Move over Mr. Bush, here comes OBAMA!

The whole idea of charging for ANYTHING and even WORSE making it mandatory is a lot of horse shit! Government is here to serve the people, not the other way around.

PowerStroker wrote:

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You're confusing the "public option" insurance plan with the "individual mandate"  Those are 2 completely different parts of the bill. 

Like you have any clue what parts of the bill are what. Hell this bill has been re-done so many times I dont think anyone really knows how big of a dick Obama plans to shove in the asses of every American. You are the first person I seen to use the term "Mandate" as of yet.  


You guys had 8 years and did nothing.

And you consider the Obama Administration trampling the rights of EVERY AMERICAN something? Bush did a hell of a lot more than your empty suit Obama. Bush brought America back on its feet after the 9/11 attacks and got a crack pot dictator off the streets. I dont miss hearing about Saddam in the news anymore. Its just like the slave driving Democrats to get a black man to do their dirty work. You lot are such a bunch of wankers. Lets make every American a slave for the democratic healthcare plan!

Again I think you're talking about the individual mandate part of the bill.  So far federal courts disagree as Massachusetts already has an individual mandate and it has survived many court challenges already.

What individual mandate are you speaking of? The mandate to have the swine flu shot? Massachusetts is hardly what I consider a large diverse population. I'd be willing to say it was more of a fluke than anything. 1 state out of 50 should be a deciding factor to the democrats! LOL!


Lets give it a chance to function and actually see the results before we say it failed.

Go fuck yourself! I am not giving Obama the chance to trample my rights! I hope he gets voted out before this mess has a chance to stick. Idiots like you dont help either. Saying lets give this bill a chance is crazy talk.


The non partisan congressional budget office projects this will actually save people money and reduce the deficit. 

Here we have some more bullshit. The congressional budget office has hardly been doing a good job. Maybe they should be focused on the economy. Maybe they should think about what happens when this plan gets rejected by millions who will refuse to pay. This country is made up of mostly HEALTHY people. If over half the nation was sick you might have a snowballs chance in hell, but thats not the case.

 

They charge me every paycheck to pay for the Iraq War, I don't exactly shout for joy every time that happens.  This bill actually does serve the people.  The only one's who don't like it are those who refuse to purchase health insurance.  Those are the people who also cause my taxes to go up anytime they use the ER for a primary care provider.

I guess the Democrats told you that this health care plan will reduce the amount of taxes you pay huh? LOL Thats not going to happen. Even people with insurance feel this bill is bullshit. They know better. Your taxes will keep going up, and if you should loose your job, they know they can still tax you a $700 fine. Lets keep in mind that $700 is only the FINE. The real plan amount comes in around $1400 a year per head. Get your head right. Your taxes will keep going up under Obama, you wait and see. Re-elect that monkey and see what happens. Obama looks to be a One Term Wonder, as no one really trust him or his Administration.

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