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Post Info TOPIC: 6.0 PowerStroke Long block question.


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6.0 PowerStroke Long block question.


I was wondering if the "Long" blocks on the 6.0 were the same from 2003-2005?

I know they changed injectors, turbo and intake configurations and also some sensor locations, but at the long block level are these 6.0 PowerStrokes the same animal?

Could a person with a 2004/2005 6.0 PowerStroke install their intake, turbo and injectors into a 2003 long block and vise versa?

Thanks in advance.



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Short answer - Only if you have EVERYTHING to assemble a complete engine for the period correct truck.  The bare long block may work, but you can't mix and match sub assemblies.

The 03 - 04.25  is different from the 04.25 - 07.  The cutoff truck build date is around 9/23/03.  While some parts are the same, there are some significant differences.

The 04.25 and newer engine has the following major differences, and several small ones, here is a basic list of things you can't mix and match between early and late builds:

~Relocated ICP sensor... Used to be in the HP cover by the IPR, now is in the front of the right VC.  Screws into the wavy rail and the late build VC has a hole through which it protrudes.
there are at least 3 different engine wiring harnesses depending on year to allow for this, as well as the EGRTP which was only there for 04.25 - 05.

~Wavy High pressure oil rails instead of straight oil logs.

~Different style HP pump

~Different internal HP plumbing ie: branch tube, standpipes, fittings ect

~Different (longer) egr cooler which won't connect to the 03 intake due to the length difference.  I believe the exhaust up pipes are different too... I know they are for sure in 05

~Different Pedestal and Turbo with an additional turbine blade, and mounting configuration at the rear bolt.  Pedestal reshaped to allow room for egr cooler coolant tube.

~Functional throttle plate in the intake to improve egr flow - early build engines had an empty housing - this was deleted all together in 05 and a different exhaust up pipe with an internal scoop was substituted.

~Injectors are different

~EGR valve is different

~Rocker arm retainers different

~Breather moved from inside the LH VC to on top of the left VC to allow room for wavy HP oil rails.  This also changed the FICM mount.

~Different intake manifold to allow for the longer EGR cooler and the rear crossover was deleted.

~MAF sensor deleted in 05

~Different operating software

~Relocated EBP sensor (exh back pressure) started around 05

~Upper aluminum oil pan adapter center row of 10mm bolts deleted

~Later build and service replacement heads/blocks have 20mm head alignment dowels instead of 18mm - If you buy a long block you won't need to know that.

~That's all I can think of at this time, I'm sure Hillbilly or Disgruntled will chime in with more.

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PowerStroker wrote:

Short answer - Only if you have EVERYTHING to assemble a complete engine for the period correct truck.  The bare long block may work, but you can't mix and match sub assemblies.

The 03 - 04.25  is different from the 04.25 - 07.  The cutoff truck build date is around 9/23/03.  While some parts are the same, there are some significant differences.
And this is why there are a lot of '04 model year trucks out there, that have '03 model year engines under the hood. For this reason, if you are the owner of an '04 model year, you are best off to have your VIN handy when shopping for parts at your local Ford store.

The 04.25 and newer engine has the following major differences, and several small ones, here is a basic list of things you can't mix and match between early and late builds:

~Relocated ICP sensor... Used to be in the HP cover by the IPR, now is in the front of the right VC.  Screws into the wavy rail and the late build VC has a hole through which it protrudes.
there are at least 3 different engine wiring harnesses depending on year to allow for this, as well as the EGRTP which was only there for 04.25 - 05.

~Wavy High pressure oil rails instead of straight oil logs.
Yes. '04 to '07 model years use the wavy style oil rails.

~Different style HP pump

~Different internal HP plumbing ie: branch tube, standpipes, fittings ect

~Different (longer) egr cooler which won't connect to the 03 intake due to the length difference.  I believe the exhaust up pipes are different too... I know they are for sure in 05

~Different Pedestal and Turbo with an additional turbine blade, and mounting configuration at the rear bolt.  Pedestal reshaped to allow room for egr cooler coolant tube.

~Functional throttle plate in the intake to improve egr flow - early build engines had an empty housing - this was deleted all together in 05 and a different exhaust up pipe with an internal scoop was substituted.

~Injectors are different
'03 model year injectors are part number CN-5020. '04 to '07 model year injectors are CN-5019. Both appear similar with no visible differences.

~EGR valve is different
'03 to '04 models use part number CX-2056. '05 to '07 model years use part number CX-2020. Although both appear similar in appearance. They are NOT interchangeable. Don't ask me how I know this.

~Rocker arm retainers different

~Breather moved from inside the LH VC to on top of the left VC to allow room for wavy HP oil rails.  This also changed the FICM mount.

~Different intake manifold to allow for the longer EGR cooler and the rear crossover was deleted.
The rear crossover style intake manifold is EXCLUSIVE to 2003 model year applications.

~MAF sensor deleted in 05
For early '05 model years only. Mid-year '05 saw the return of MAF sensors.

~Different operating software

~Relocated EBP sensor (exh back pressure) started around 05
Yes, and different part numbers too. The '05 and newer model years use an EBP sensor that is bigger in diameter and uses a course thread screw-in to the EBP tube. Unlike the '04 and older style, which use a fine thread, which IS by the way, interchangeable with a 7.3L EBP sensor (uses the same 4C3Z-9J460-A part number). It is also noteworthy to mention that although on '03 model year engines, this sensor serves no other purpose, other than just to "look good". This is thanks to the 06E17 Ford released reflash program to '03 model year owners, that DELETED EBP input into the PCM strategy altogether.

~Upper aluminum oil pan adapter center row of 10mm bolts deleted

~Later build and service replacement heads/blocks have 20mm head alignment dowels instead of 18mm - If you buy a long block you won't need to know that.

~That's all I can think of at this time, I'm sure Hillbilly or Disgruntled will chime in with more.




What I was able to add, I posted below in red bold font. Other than that, Powerstroker has done a pretty good job describing the differences. Rex, if you are interested in actually understanding what the differences are internally in these engines in greater detail, here are a couple of publications that might be of interest to you. This one here, is the first coffee table book on 2003 model years:

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/publications/coffeetablebooks/20032560LCoffeeTableBook.pdf

And this one is an update, beginning in 2004:

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/publications/coffeetablebooks/200460LUpdatedCoffeeTableBook.pdf

And this last one is for 2005 and later:

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/publications/coffeetablebooks/200560LUpdatedCoffeeTableBook.pdf

ENJOY!!!

 



-- Edited by disgruntled on Sunday 27th of December 2009 01:21:57 AM

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WoW.

Thats a lot of changes.

Now days its almost like they do it to ensure people just buy new trucks. Back in the day GM's 305/350 and Fords 302/351 were for the most part interchangable. In the case of the 350/305 it was that way for more than 10-15 years!

I think manufatures have seen this as "Bad for business", and thus have gotten away from that practice. Now days you are lucky if the parts interchange from year to year, regardless if the engine is the same.

It is also noteworthy to mention that although on '03 model year engines, this sensor serves no other purpose, other than just to "look good". This is thanks to the 06E17 Ford released reflash program to '03 model year owners, that DELETED EBP input into the PCM strategy altogether.

I myself have noticed a BIG decrease in top end boost every since I let Ford re-flash my 2003 6.0 Diesel engine. I wish I had never let Ford hook their equipment to my truck.

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Maybe it's a head gasket protection strategy :)

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SELLC wrote:

WoW.

Thats a lot of changes.
Yes, it is. This is why it is very prudent to have a THROROUGH understanding of how these engines operate, before getting one's hands dirty working on them. 

Now days its almost like they do it to ensure people just buy new trucks. Back in the day GM's 305/350 and Fords 302/351 were for the most part interchangable. In the case of the 350/305 it was that way for more than 10-15 years!

I think manufatures have seen this as "Bad for business", and thus have gotten away from that practice. Now days you are lucky if the parts interchange from year to year, regardless if the engine is the same.

It is also noteworthy to mention that although on '03 model year engines, this sensor serves no other purpose, other than just to "look good". This is thanks to the 06E17 Ford released reflash program to '03 model year owners, that DELETED EBP input into the PCM strategy altogether.

I myself have noticed a BIG decrease in top end boost every since I let Ford re-flash my 2003 6.0 Diesel engine. I wish I had never let Ford hook their equipment to my truck.
Was this under 06E17, or was it for some other issue?




The changes throughout the model years, are changes that Ford had no control over but are changes that exist nonetheless. That said, we have to be very aware of them every time one rolls in with any particular symptom. The one famous question I think most of us Ford dealer tech finds ourselves asking, when presented with a vehicle, is WHAT YEAR IS IT? That question IS for a reason.

 



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It was Campaign 06E17 to reprogram the TCM and FICM indeed.

I agree that it addressed some issues with cold start, at the expence of killing the performance.

I think Fords did this to squeeze life out of bad injectors. It was a lot cheaper to change the stradigy than it would have been to replace all them injectors/pumps under warranty. 

Its almost like Ford's de-tuned the motor to address a problem with over fueling in extreeme cold weather. Only problem was the de-tuning did not cease once the engine warmed up. It carries on thru to all aspects hot and cold.

What I learned in all of this you wont find in any coffee table book. Fords was lucky to have kept from going under as it desperatly tried to work the bugs out of the 6.0 and the evidence can be seen in the amount of "changes" over such a short period of time. Software does not wear out. Hardware on the other hand, well thats another story. Good thing you can re-program software to compensate for worn parts, worn parts that might have been better suited to be replaced, rather than the software being recalibrated to compensate. Thats the part you dont read about in the book, the business end of saving money, ensuring part revenues and the overall goal of keeping the customer buying a new car every 72 months. It is important that Ford's limit the amount it spends to keep these cars up while under warranty. Most people arent mechanics, so the idea of owning and driving a vehicle for 10-20 years is not an option.

Question now is does anyone want to gamble $60,000 that Fords got it right for 2011 with the 6.7 Liter Scorpion? Guess only time will tell, but with some of the new appoitments in the 2011 they are making it hard to say no.

 

-- Edited by SELLC on Tuesday 29th of December 2009 05:19:55 AM

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