Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Mercedes Benz 560 Engine Intake Manifold Removal + Gasket and Seal Replacement - SEL - SEC - SL


CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Status: Offline
Posts: 13792
Date:
Mercedes Benz 560 Engine Intake Manifold Removal + Gasket and Seal Replacement - SEL - SEC - SL


This thread covers an easy way to remove your intake manifold for replacement of the following items-

Intake Manifold Gaskets - Fuel Injector Screening + O-rings - Intake Connectors (Rubber seals between the two intake halves) and also the replacement of the air meter plenum also called "The booth"

It is important to realize that these photos show a 1989 560 SL however most of the part numbers and procedures also pertain to the 560 engine found in the Sedan (SEL - SE) and also the Coupe (SEC).

In the next section I will cover the part numbers, show images of the parts and then also the proper procedure to clean the area with the least amount of debris. Proper cleaning of the mating surfaces is imperative and keeping the dirt from entering the engine is a MUST.



-- Edited by SELLC on Tuesday 14th of June 2011 04:18:41 AM

__________________

A middle-aged loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless - in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

LET'S GO BRANDON!

 



CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Status: Offline
Posts: 13792
Date:

Picking back up where we left off,

 



-- Edited by SELLC on Sunday 3rd of July 2011 04:42:21 PM

__________________

A middle-aged loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless - in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

LET'S GO BRANDON!

 



Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 1058
Date:

When purchasing intake manifold gaskets for the M117, try to purchase Elring branded gaskets if possible. MB also uses Elring as their OEM for the M117/560 intake gaskets. Elring also makes excellent head gaskets for the M117 as well, and in fact their head gasket kits contain intake manifold gaskets too.

Elring and MB factory gaskets are preferable in nearly all cases to Victor Reinz (or Reinz-Repa) gaskets. Though if I only had Reinz gaskets available, I would put them on my car over and above any no-name gaskets or those made by American companies.

__________________


CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Status: Offline
Posts: 13792
Date:

I myself would avoid Elring and Victor Reinz UNLESS it was in a genuine factory Mercedes-Benz box.

For some reason parts made for genuine Mercedes-Benz re-sale are of better quality than these two gasket makers mentioned above. I mean it's almost as if they sort out the best examples for use as Genuine Mercedes parts and then pawn off whatever is left over in their own line, be it Elring or Victor Reinz. I know it sounds strange, but it's true. 



__________________

A middle-aged loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless - in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

LET'S GO BRANDON!

 



Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 1058
Date:

Here you see factory MB intake manifold gaskets (from parts.com, mind you) as well as a pair of Elring manifold gaskets.  I could not tell any difference between them by direct comparison. 

Yes I personally did this last year. Unlike the Benzworld denizens, I am not afraid to tear my engine down and tear it down 1,000 miles later if something is not right, to make it right.

The Elring gaskets had about 1,000 miles on them which is you see the marks on them.



Attachments
__________________


CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Status: Offline
Posts: 13792
Date:

I am well aware that Elring actually makes the gaskets for Mercedes-Benz, however what I find strange is that "sometimes" you will get a less than perfect gasket every now and then. You would think the quality control standards would be higher buying direct from the people that actually make the gaskets, but when it comes to Mercedes Benz I have found that to NEVER be the case. Mercedes is VERY picky and when buying gaskets I have ALWAYS purchased Genuine Mercedes period. I leave the Elring's sitting in the local parts suppliers warehouse to get kicked around and abused for someone else.

While I will often times deveate from the Genuine Mercedes-Benz boxed parts when it comes to Bosch plug wires, caps and rotors that's about as far as Ill go outside of filters.

Take for example Bosch Platinum plugs, they are crap for ANY vehicle. And you can not buy the W9DCO plug anymore outside of Mercedes-Benz.

When someone pays you to fix their vehicle you just don't take chances when it comes to gaskets. Even on my own car I purchase Genuine Mercedes gaskets only.



__________________

A middle-aged loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless - in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

LET'S GO BRANDON!

 



Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 1058
Date:

There are some places where you can get away with aftermarket stuff (because it's identical to or better than the equivalent MB part), and other places where you cannot.

Take for example the EHA on the M117. The Bosch EHA that you get from aftermarket suppliers is the identical unit that I just received from MBUSA on Thursday, which was clearly marked BOSCH and had BOSCH instructions but was in an MB box. Now, there was absolutely no difference between this unit and the unit that I removed from my car. Surprisingly, the MB boxed unit DID NOT even have an MB star and part number on the part. I don't think I have ever seen this before ... a "Genuine" MB part not being marked as such.

The problem with the Bosch plug wires that you say you like to use is that while they are of the same quality as the MB wires (and as an aside I would also put Beru up there in the high quality space), the "generic" boxed Bosch wires are just that -- a universal set of wires that is a generic length that is not appropriate to any particular vehicle (I'm talking M117-based vehicles here). The MB plug wires you get from MB in the package are cut to the EXACT length and have the black rubber sheathing keeping the bundle together, just like the wires that came from the factory.

When you buy MB wires for the M119, you do have to cut them to the appropriate length.

One should never put Bosch Platinum plugs on any vintage MB. And you are 100% correct that the non-resistor plugs that are best for the M117s are only available from MB (though I have a source for them in California).

I have to beg to differ with you with these gaskets though. I looked very closely at the "aftermarket" Elring gaskets (which among many other parts were shipped to me by a good frlend who has owned a successful MB repair business & parts warehouse in the San Francisco area for more than 30 years) Elring manifold gaskets and the MB "real thing" and could absolutely find no physical difference. The MB gaskets are what's on my car right now. The Elring head gaskets are between my heads and block and more than 13,000 miles after replacing my cylinder heads, I have yet to see a single drop of oil on the floor of my garage.

__________________


CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Status: Offline
Posts: 13792
Date:

gerryvz wrote:

The MB plug wires you get from MB in the package are cut to the EXACT length and have the black rubber sheathing keeping the bundle together, just like the wires that came from the factory.

Ill give you that one Gerry. It is true the non-MB boxed wires do not have the black rubber sheathing. Yet I have a hard time trying to sell a customer an almost $100 pair of rubber sheathings, which is the diffrence in cost between what I pay for a set of Bosch wires from my local parts store, and what they cost from MB (even on parts.com)

One should never put Bosch Platinum plugs on any vintage MB. And you are 100% correct that the non-resistor plugs that are best for the M117s are only available from MB (though I have a source for them in California).

I have run resistor plugs in my Mercedes without issue (copper), right now there is a set in my Benz because before you turned me on to parts.com I was under the false impression that the old BenzWorld.org statement that W9DCO plugs were NLA was true. (Having never tried to get them from the dealership). I have to update that information in my tune-up thred.

I have to beg to differ with you with these gaskets though.

Well I have seen variations in my past dealings with non-MB gaskets and it turned me off. So now I just use Genuine MB gaskets.

 


 



__________________

A middle-aged loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless - in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

LET'S GO BRANDON!

 



Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 1058
Date:

Boy, the brake fluid in that SL's reservoir is lookin' kinda old/dark, eh?

__________________


CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Status: Offline
Posts: 13792
Date:

Yeah, but the vehicle is over 21 years old now.. It could also use some bushings on the cradle and some other things too but the customer has hit his limit with regards to spending for the year.

He is coming back in within a few weeks for us to install some injector seals we could not get back when we did this job, so maybe Ill bring it up to him then.

As someone with 100K on my brake fluid, I cant justify making him replace it. I have heard stories about flushing the brake fluid, but honestly I have found that unless some idiot mixed the wrong kind of fluid the stuff is usually fine.  Light brown isnt nothing to seriously get worried about, but when it's black thats another story. Still a flush goes a long way towards keeping it from going black.

I think I'd have a hard time selling him on it until the time comes to do the brakes.



__________________

A middle-aged loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless - in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

LET'S GO BRANDON!

 



Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 1058
Date:

That's got to be a record of 21 years on OE brake fluid. At that age, it's probably got to be upwards of 90% H20 rather than brake fluid, eh?

I'll bet that even PowerStroker doesn't even go that long on his fluid. Given that the ATE stuff is cheap, and most folks should have a PowerBleeder for doing their brakes (perhaps a PowerBleeder is related to PowerStroker) seems like an hour's worth of labor would be good for the safety of the vehicle.

I try to do my fluid every second or third year.

__________________


CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Status: Offline
Posts: 13792
Date:

90% H20? LOL!

Are you suggesting that 90% of the brake fluid that has been replaced by H20 has either escaped and or evaporated? In a sealed system? LOL

You know Gerry, I was born at night, but not last night buddy. I am sure any customer with half a brain would say the same.

Perhaps I could suggest the customer rotate the air in his tires also? You think he will fall for that one too?

Don't worry Gerry, the customer is scheduled to get some new front brake lines next summer. He put wider tires on his SL and ended up wearing a small flat spot in the outer portion of the line. Lucky for him we caught it. Like I said before, some people budget for what they can spend a year, and most people will wait until brake work is needed before flushing the fluid.



-- Edited by SELLC on Sunday 25th of September 2011 12:30:16 PM

__________________

A middle-aged loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless - in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

LET'S GO BRANDON!

 



Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 1058
Date:

Are you shitting me SELLC? Are you trying to pull a mcClare on me or something?!?

Brake fluid is hygroscopic; it absorbs water over time just from the air and humidity through the hoses and rubber seals in the system. This reduces the boiling point of the fluid and thus reduces its effectiveness (particularly under hard use). C'mon, everyone knows that.

You can test moisture content in about two seconds?

Why does MB say to flush the fluid every year or two as part of its service regimen? Are you telling me you've NEVER seen a car with rusted out brake lines and seized calipers from too much moisture content in the brake system.

OK, I'm officially putting you on mechanic's probation. I'd bet even PowerSmoker would agree with me on this one: moisture enters the system over time and reduces the effectiveness of the fluid through a reduced boiling point. If it gets too bad it can rust out the brake system.

My god, I may just have to go back to Benzworld......

__________________


CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Status: Offline
Posts: 13792
Date:

gerryvz wrote:

At that age, it's probably got to be upwards of 90% H20 rather than brake fluid, eh?


There is a big difference between trace amounts of moisture and your claims of the system containing 90% H20.

If I told my customer his brake fluid was looking a little dirty he may or may not elect to have me perform the job. If I told him his brake reservoir contained 90% H20 he would likely laugh his ass off and never come back.

That brake fluid will be fine until next year, his broken timing chain guides on the other hand would NOT have been fine until next year. As stated before, customers control what they want to spend on their vehicles, and I for one try and help my customers by doing things that will benefit them with regard to overlapping labor. For example, flushing the brake fluid at the same time as replacing a brake line would be a prime example of overlaping labor savings.

If anyone is acting like a Mclare here it would be you, by over-reating and becoming over dramatic. Yes you did observe some dark colored fluid, however the issue was moot once I informed you (1) This is not my personal vehicle (2) Customer did not authorize said maintaniace and (3) Customer is having said issue addressed at a later date when brake work will be performed.

I think even PowerStroker would laugh his ass off over the claims you made about that brake reservoir containing 90% H20.

Flushing the brake fluid now, then doing the brake work later would be a complete waste of money, in fact it reminds me of something Cascade has done in the past.



__________________

A middle-aged loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless - in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

LET'S GO BRANDON!

 



Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 1058
Date:

SELLC wrote:
gerryvz wrote:

At that age, it's probably got to be upwards of 90% H20 rather than brake fluid, eh?


There is a big difference between trace amounts of moisture and your claims of the system containing 90% H20.

I think even PowerStroker would laugh his ass off over the claims you made about that brake reservoir containing 90% H20.

 That was a sarcastic joke .. you know, saying that it had been so long between fluid flushes that the brake fluid had almost totally become water.

OK I won't tell any more jokes here. "Strictly the facts"



__________________


CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Status: Offline
Posts: 13792
Date:

Well if it was a joke then yes, that was pretty funny.

As it stands this is a customers vehicle, and as such I had to rebuke your joke tooth and nail. You never know when the boss is watching...

Anyway, Ill have this SL back in for service next week once that performance Z28 sets sail. Of course I know that unless the brake line has gotten worse, the job will not be addressed until early spring. The guy who owns this SL rubs the thing with a diaper. One of the cleanest Mercedes I have seen in a long time. Really the vehicle will only spend another month and a half on the roads anyway (mostly weekends) before it is placed in hibernation for the winter.

Hell it's only got 80K miles on the damn thing!



__________________

A middle-aged loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless - in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

LET'S GO BRANDON!

 



Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 1058
Date:

+1 on doing related jobs to save labor costs for the customer. I do that a lot on my cars (when I can).

This was a busy wrenching weekend for me on Benzes now that the temperature outside is down into the mid-90s. I can do all of the jobs that I have been putting off since May due to the Houston heat.

 

Oh by the way I might have to tell a joke or two in the future about cascade or McClare but only if the situation warrants it.

You can see another one of my jokes in this post:

http://500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?1794-HOW-TO-Retrofitting-door-switches-with-settable-switches&p=12924&viewfull=1#post12924



-- Edited by gerryvz on Sunday 25th of September 2011 06:19:44 PM

__________________


Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 1459
Date:

THIS THREAD IS LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME.......... THANKS TO GAYRRY'S HALF ASSED JOKES!!!!!!!!!!!!

__________________

LIKE A PHOENIX RISING FROM THE ASHES.................... HERE TO SHIT ON REX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Rookie

Status: Offline
Posts: 1
Date:

I cannot see th photos  can you  email  me  or tell me jhow to get the photos.also  I replaced all the intake gaskets  the boo,t injector  seal the plastic tips ect .I started it up and got white  smoke ?the right and left  intake manifold gaskets are the same ? one side has a sealer  or blue sealer on it the other  side is dry /can you mix these up? there are pin locators on the head side ??/ could I have installed them  wrong ? I  torque them 24nm inside to out ?runs like shit  too ??? can you help   bob 1989 560  came in  missing and runs  rough  no power the first thing I  checked was the cam timing  the  pass side was a 1/4 tooth behind the driver side was  dead on  but the chain can  be lifted up and down ? bob  201 214 2118 nj



__________________
bob


CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Status: Offline
Posts: 13792
Date:

We pulled all of our photos.

There is a left and a right intake manifold gasket, although it would be pretty hard to mix them up in my opinion. This is why there is two diffrent part numbers.

IIRC the sides with the sealer lines goes towards the intake manifold.

24nm is about 18 ft. lbs which is about right. However I have taken them down to 20-21 ft. lbs in the past.

It's hard to say what went wrong in your installation over a computer, however something does not sound right. Sounds like you could use a new timing chain, tensioner, guides and maybe some offset keys for the cams. This is because you claim the chain can be lifted up and down.

Good luck 

 



__________________

A middle-aged loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless - in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

LET'S GO BRANDON!

 



CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Status: Offline
Posts: 13792
Date:

SELLC wrote:

In the next section I will cover the part numbers, show images of the parts and then also the proper procedure to clean the area with the least amount of debris. Proper cleaning of the mating surfaces is imperative and keeping the dirt from entering the engine is a MUST.


What I find most interesting when looking back on this thread is somewhat ironic.

Take a look at these two photos, in the rearward passenger side corner of the engine valley you can see what appears to be a large clump of debris. What that really was is "Decon", the poison often times used to deal with mice or rodents.

Of all the places in the garage that this rodent could have placed this Decon, he put it under the owners  intake manifold! Is that some crazy shit or what?  I mean this rodent really knew how to play the game! Reminds me of PowerStroker and Stoma, a couple of rodents them two are! LOL



-- Edited by SELLC on Tuesday 11th of December 2012 07:18:31 AM

__________________

A middle-aged loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless - in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

LET'S GO BRANDON!

 



Senior Guest

Status: Offline
Posts: 26
Date:

Curious to know what was used to clean manifold, mixture control unit / air guide housing and all that sits underneath?



__________________


CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Status: Offline
Posts: 13792
Date:

Parts washer solvent and or Carb cleaner.

Plan on a cheap buzz either way from the fumes.



__________________

A middle-aged loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless - in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

LET'S GO BRANDON!

 



FAR BEYOND DRIVEN

Status: Offline
Posts: 3709
Date:

Yo SEL420,

The carb-cleaner smells and tastes much better ( LOL ) !

Cheers,

Rastus

__________________

"Only an alert & knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial & military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods & goals, so that security & liberty may prosper together".    Dwight D.Eisenhower.



Rookie

Status: Offline
Posts: 1
Date:

I'm about to start this job and this is the only write up I've seen on any of the forums I've checked so far. It seems like a pretty straight forward replacement but when I was quoted by a mechanic for it he said it would run me over a grand for me to have him do it because of how long it takes. As far as I can tell, it looks like all you did was remove the fuel distributor, air flow sensor, plenum, and all the hoses and wires attached, cleaned it all up and put it all back together. Am I right or am I missing a few pretty huge steps?

__________________


CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Status: Offline
Posts: 13792
Date:

It's a rather large job, even if you have done it a few times there is no escaping the hours. It's a lot of clean up and yes there are more screws, brackets and parts than you can shake a stick at. Best to not be in a hurry when working on these cars, because even the parts are usually special order. Let us know how it goes, feel free to post photos or make a thread about your repair.



__________________

A middle-aged loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless - in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

LET'S GO BRANDON!

 

Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.



Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard