Ok guys... many of threads about the bottom bolt issue when removing the water pump. I have removed the 6 bolts in the harmoic balancer. This thing will not budge! Should I simply hit a few times with rubber mallet? I'm really nervous about all the talk about making sure to know it's current position; therefore, knowing it's proper position for the reinstall. What's best way to mark it's current position? Thanks for your help guys!
I don't suggest using the engine to break free the bolt. Maybe on an old cast iron GM engine but not so much a Mercedes.
I must also warn people that using the engine to break free the main balancer bolt is not a good idea for the rookie as it could end up with disastrous results such as damage to your vehicle, tools or even worse yet bodily harm if something breaks and there is a person close.
You should not have to remove the large center bolt to remove the pully itself, but if you do you notice the pully actually is bolted to another sleeve which in tern slides over the crankshaft.
There are ways to lock the engine however I think in all cases it may just be less expensive to take the vehicle to a shop and flip a guy $20 to bust it loose with an impact then have him snug it down by hand so you can break it free at home. If you are already in-progress then this would not be feasible but I will say this... If you plan on doing any major work you SHOULD have an air compressor anyway since compressed air and cleaning of the mating surfaces will be required to do a proper job. A small air compressor that gets to 90PSI is somewhat inexpensive and air tools can be purchased at Harbor Freight for a very reasonable price. Die grinders are usually under $20 and Harbor Freights "EarthQuake" brand impacts are pretty much low cost knock off's of the Ingersoll Rand's that professionals use.
If you spend $300-400 on some tools you will still come out ahead if you are doing the work yourself because major and minor repairs are expensive if done by someone else. Plus you will have these items for future work, or you could easily sell them on Craigslist to re-coup a good portion of your expenses, although most will wonder how in the world they ever got on without them and in most cases keep them for future projects not just limited to car repair.
-- Edited by SELLC on Tuesday 19th of March 2013 02:15:17 PM
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
I know I'm a few days behind (LOL), but a white paint-pen will help you align the balancer to the crank & pulley etc, & you can buy from any 1/2 decent auto-mart a harmonic balancer removal tool. It will come as a kit with different sized bolts etc to fit most automotive balancers for around $20-40. It's worth every cent you pay as it pulls the balancer off squarely and will hopefully minimize the use of a SOFT FACE hammer ! Have fun, as it's always a dodgy event doing things for the first time ! Oh yeah, remember to place the washers that come off with the crank-bolt the correct way around...And if you don't have an impact-gun, ( don't listen to this SELLC ), you can secure the 27mm socket to a breaker bar with a piece of pipe over its end, and then ensure that its a snug fit on the crank-bolt and to the ground...Then have someone crank the engine over using the key, and your starter motor will do all the hard work for you ! Disconnect the green wire from the ignition module to ensure that the car doesn't start before you crank! You'll need loctite on the bolt when re-installing it, as it's difficult to tension it back up to the required 240+Nm...The loctite will hold it where it should as long as you can get it pretty tight !
Hope this helps,
Rastus
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"Only an alert & knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial & military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods & goals, so that security & liberty may prosper together". Dwight D.Eisenhower.
I appreciate the input Rastus.... now my problem is when trying to remove the large bolt ( in order to remove the pulley ), the engine turns... even with spark plugs in and while car is in Drive ?? Fun times!!!
You're absolutely correct about the dangers involved, but I wrote the post thinking that SEL420 was in a spot, and that urgency was needed ! There is infact an official Mercedes Benz tool that looks like segment of your engines ring-gear, and it fits in the "alternate" starter-motor casting ( depending on whether your car is left or right-hand drive determines where you can locate it ), and this basically locks the engine and will allow you to unscrew the crank-shaft bolt. Maybe your local dealer can order one in for you or even "lend" the tool to you for a small fee...Good luck !
Cheers,
Rastus
PS The idea with the breaker bar was to secure it both to the bolt and maybe the chassis-rail ( to stop it swinging ), then hold everything in place whilst someone hits the starter. It is a little dangerous if you can't grasp the concept, so safety first is the ONLY way to go about this. Please buy yourself the harmonic-balancer removal tool, and you won't have to go through this mess !
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"Only an alert & knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial & military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods & goals, so that security & liberty may prosper together". Dwight D.Eisenhower.
Thanks again Rastus & SELLC for your input. I can not believe those crazy Germans.... all this trouble for a water pump?
Anyway... I believe that the direction I'm going with is to cut the bottom bolt out, replacing it with a shorter bolt. I just don't have the necessary tools needed and it frankly it scares the h3!! out of me.
I've pulled out the intake manifold... FINALLY!! Next up are the heads to take to a machine shop!!
You know... I want to say a long time ago I was able to get that bottom bolt out of a 420 engine by moving the balancer to the little "U" notch and sliding it out... However that was about 10-12 years ago, now that I think about it I may have cut it too? It was a parts engine that I needed the water pump off for a customer that was waiting.
Anyway, if you do decide to cut it you could thread a stud in there and use a nut to hold it down...
BUT! If you are sure you have ALL the small bolts out, and you cleaned up the outside of the washers on the big bolt (there about 4 of them stacked together that rust and hold the pully and balancer on) and then you have also soaked the heck out of it with penetrating oil then just be a man and SMACK THE HELL OUT OF IT! If you bend the damn thing Ill sell you another one for $20 + Shipping.. Seriously it's time to move on man. Be sure to hit it in places that wont bend the area where the belts ride but your just going to have to give that sucker a nice wrap with a hammer.... Germans like their stuff "Goodntight" (said with strong German accent) LOL
If worse comes to worse and you think you will dent or bend it try using a 2X4 to wrap on it. Just place the wood on the balancer and wrap on the wood. This should prevent any serious bending.
I should also note that it's not like you are "just" doing the water pump... You got the intake manifold off and you are getting ready to pull the heads! If you think that balancer bolt is tuff wait until you get to splitting the manifolds and removing the starter bolts!
-- Edited by SELLC on Friday 22nd of March 2013 10:27:57 PM
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
The idea is to try and "rock" the balancer off if you don't have the puller on-hand. You can try using a couple of "pry-bars" do do this by resting the bars on the heads of the bolts on or near the timing-cover...( It's been a few years for me too now SELLC !), and with a little bit of luck, it will free itself and leave you to replace the pump. Alternately, whacking it with the soft-faced hammer at opposing ends is still trying to do the same thing. Once you've finished, should you decide to install a stud with a nut on it inplace of the bolt, make sure that it's not too long !!! The cut-out in the balancer will enable you to remove the bolt, but you'll still struggle to remove ( yet alone re-install ) the water-pump with a fresh gasket ...Taking off the balancer will make life so much easier it's not funny, especially when cleaning the surfaces ! Make sure that your new water-pump is the correct one also ! Whenever you buy parts for your Mercedes, always provide the full Chassis number, Build date, and full Engine number. Time has shown that even with all this information, the incorrect part might still be given to you. Good luck !
Cheers,
Rastus
__________________
"Only an alert & knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial & military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods & goals, so that security & liberty may prosper together". Dwight D.Eisenhower.
I wonder how this guy ever got on with this water pump job?
Seems he was really stuck with that lower balancer pully! I been working on a customer pay 420 SEL and had the same problem as him with regards to rusty washers on the center bolt keeping the lower pully from comming off, but still it only took me all of 10 minutes to remove the entire setup and that includes time to take these photos!
So... It might not be much help now, but while removing these parts I was sure to snap some good photos for people. I just hope he did not get too carried away. Bottom line here is that the OP really needed a good impact gun and all would have come appart for him just as easy. Think I will make a new thread about the balancer that way people that don't quite understand how it goes together can save themselves the grief the OP went thru.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
Hey SELLC ... needless to say..."I wonder how this guy ever got on with this water pump job?" .... not very far. As deep as I am into the job, no mechanic will touch it. Being in TX, it's not very fun working under the hood, outside, when temp is over 100. With all that said, I need to jump back on it before I get handed divorce papers.
Your pictures certainly help. Looking at the first picture, the center bolt is still in, yet you have the balancer pulley in your hand. After removing the 6 bolts, I was certain that the center bolt was holding the pulley as well. I just don't have the proper tools to mess with that center bolt.
It appears that I can now grab a rubber mallet and hammer away!?!?!
Well to be quite honest this lower pully was stuck on there pretty good too! With the engine out I pried on it with a small pry bar with no luck. Ended up being easier for me to just zap the center bolt off since I have an impact gun.
HOWEVER - The pulley DOES slide over the washers and just to be sure I slipped the lower pully over the washers after it had been removed so I can assure you the center bolt is not what is holding your pulley on. What is holding your pulley on is the swelled up rust on the washers which perhaps you could grind or sand to knock off the rust. Also you could spray lots of penetrating oil all over the washers and inside the pulley. This may allow you to pull it off without having to pull the big center bolt.
Like I have said before, on cleaner engines I have never had to pull the center bolt, but this one was quite crusty as you can see. I even double checked for you that the pulley does infact go on and off with the center bolt installed. It's just going to be a matter of getting some penertrating oil like PB Blaster or something and soaking the inside and outside where it mates, then using a pry bar or hammer work it off. Just start spraying that penetrating oil every day a few times a day for the next week and I bet that will free it up enough for you to work it off without removal of the center bolt.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
Beautiful day here in DFW... weather is cooling off... which means more work on the 420! After spraying the balancer, weeks prior to and last night... loosening the rust on balancer.... IT"S FINALLY OFF!!
Unfortanley, I do not have the proper tools to remove the large bolt. The green part just behind the balancer was keeping me from removing the water pump. I have since cut the bolt and the water pump has been removed as well!!!
