Iran Deal - Auto-Trend Repairs and Service Information Forums

Nuffan · No longer a user - left on their own accord.

Iran Deal

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Is that what your handlers told you?

Got anything official backing up them claims? You know, a "link"?

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

In other words, I reject you reality and substitute it with my own gut feeling.

Does anyone actually have a copy of the Iran deal laying around? Anyone? Anyone?? ... Buller?

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Might they also have a copy of the instrument used to seize this money 30 years ago? I am sure it would detail the exact reasons why...

Nuffan · No longer a user - left on their own accord.

This is pretty accurate...

https://time.com/4441046/400-million-iran-hostage-history/

It is spot on on where the debt came from...

Money that was paid for Jets that we were never going to deliver after the hostages...

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Nuffan wrote:

Money that was paid for Jets that we were never going to deliver after the hostages...

And that whole thing with the hostages is okay with you?

And Time magazine!? LOL! I'll check the link a little later but I don't really think editorial pieces, usually opinion based, are quite up to the caliber of the actual instruments themselves. But perhaps the Time article will do the professional thing and post links to them.

I won't hold my breath, and neither should you! LOL

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Rex, when even your conservative buddy Nuffan disagrees with you, maybe it is YOU who is wrong, and maybe it's been that way for a very long time. You really need to get over the plane full of money thing. It was perfectly legal and within president Obama's prerogative. If not, The Senate and Justice Department can bring Obama up on charges at any time. Perhaps you should encourage them to do so. Then when they tell you the same thing that Nuffan and I have been telling you, what will you do then? Would you lose faith in Trump and McConnell and vote Democrat next time in protest? I don't think so, I think you will keep voting for people who fail to deliver on the issues you care about because they actually know the law, which will make you even angrier.

I prefer to vote my hopes rather than my anger, and I think you would be a happier person if you did the same.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Stroker, it's like this - our Presidents are hired to do very dirty jobs!

As much as I disagree with both you knuckleheads I understand it's beyond my control. Your ying to my yang is apparently what makes this world go around but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

To take down a sitting President is unprecedented, at least in the history of my conscious existence. You may not like Trump, I may not like Obama... Some may not like Bush others may not like Clinton... Doesn't really matter at the end of the day now does it? We're all on the same side when push comes to shove, although you would never guess it by the day to day news cycles and the partisan divide in here.

All that being said, I think there were serious breaches of protocol at the least, if not treason at the worst - but I am only one vote! I'd be more inclined to the actual instruments used and documents surrounding the deal not only from when Obama was President, but going back 30 some years to when this money was supposedly appropriated - but again, I am not privy to such details... I can only go by my gut and my gut tells me something stinks about the Iran deal. Doesn't really matter though, history will see to it things are proven exactly as they want them to be known. Who are "they"? Who the fuck knows, but at least when it comes to America it's never a static "they", or at least they know better than to expose themselves.

Nuffan · No longer a user - left on their own accord.

SELLC wrote:
Nuffan wrote:

Money that was paid for Jets that we were never going to deliver after the hostages...

And that whole thing with the hostages is okay with you?
And Time magazine!? LOL! I'll check the link a little later but I don't really think editorial pieces, usually opinion based, are quite up to the caliber of the actual instruments themselves. But perhaps the Time article will do the professional thing and post links to them.
I won't hold my breath, and neither should you! LOL

Where the FUCK did you get the whole thing with the hostages was okay with me?

I simply told you where the money originated and that it was NEVER tax dollars that Obama returned....

If he used tax dollars to pay them it would have to be appropriated through congress...

HE DID NOT...

He return money we just kept...

We knew in the 1970's we would someday end up having to return the funds...

We have known for decades.

Sorry that you are not understanding it....but now you are just making shit up...

Just because I understand what happened does not mean I agree with what was done...

And I chose the times story because they actually did a solid job of explaining how the US has been doing give backs to Iran under Reagan and Bush as well...

it explains that by the time Obama was in office the only thing left to resolve was the money Iran gave the US for Jets.

YOU ASK FOR A LINK...I PROVIDE ONE....THEN YOU BITCH ABOUT THE ONE I SUPPLY...

And because I took the time to give you REAL fucking information you assume I am AGAINST YOU SOME HOW, and accuse me of being OKAY with the hostages????

You are listening to too many right wing propaganda sites...

YES just like the left wing the right wing does the same bullshit...

when they can drag the other side through the mud they do when they can not they make shit up...

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

I read that partisan hack job Time article and NO WHERE does it link up to actual documents. It's an opinion piece!

Iran taking hostages is obviously totally OK with you! You don't give one $hit about Americans if you think Iran was justly due that money back!

Iran is a turn coat! They only got that order for US planes by a deceptive alliance that was broken the moment they thought the deal for the new jets was secured. Dumb motherfuckers learned the hard way!

Yet still to this day they are still taking hostages, even had hostages the day Obama and Kerry paid them all that cash, which you claim was owed to them! So YOU ARE OK with Iran taking hostages, hell - even entire embassies!

I feel that Iran forfeit the money when they made an order for US planes and then switched sides! We were probably out all kinds of cash building them planes, hiring people - paying people to hire people! You must not be a businessman at all if you can't understand why someone making an order, then backing out - cost us money! Yet you feel returning their money, WITH INTEREST (which is against the tenants of Islam by the way) was a just and good idea! So you are okay with Iran taking hostages!

I say Iran wasn't entitled to SHIT! They placed an order for military planes then switched sides! They should have thought about that prior to switching sides! Iran forfeit the money and Obama / Kerry caved! But lets be honest, they didn't cave - they all had their hands in it! It was a dirty deal rife with kickbacks all around and YOU SUPPORT IT!

Nuffan · No longer a user - left on their own accord.

SELLC wrote:
I read that partisan hack job Time article and NO WHERE does it link up to actual documents. It's an opinion piece!
Iran taking hostages is obviously totally OK with you! You don't give one $hit about Americans if you think Iran was justly due that money back!
Iran is a turn coat! They only got that order for US planes by a deceptive alliance that was broken the moment they thought the deal for the new jets was secured. Dumb motherfuckers learned the hard way!
Yet still to this day they are still taking hostages, even had hostages the day Obama and Kerry paid them all that cash, which you claim was owed to them! So YOU ARE OK with Iran taking hostages, hell - even entire embassies!
I feel that Iran forfeit the money when they made an order for US planes and then switched sides! We were probably out all kinds of cash building them planes, hiring people - paying people to hire people! You must not be a businessman at all if you can't understand why someone making an order, then backing out - cost us money! Yet you feel returning their money, WITH INTEREST (which is against the tenants of Islam by the way) was a just and good idea! So you are okay with Iran taking hostages!
I say Iran wasn't entitled to SHIT! They placed an order for military planes then switched sides! They should have thought about that prior to switching sides! Iran forfeit the money and Obama / Kerry caved! But lets be honest, they didn't cave - they all had their hands in it! It was a dirty deal rife with kickbacks all around and YOU SUPPORT IT!

How do you get to I support it...???

Because I know why the money was returned without congress appropriating the funds?

For knowing this I must somehow support it?

it was not appropriated through Congress because we did not use tax dollars....

we returned money in seized accounts...

It was not Obama nor Kerry that made any decision to return the money that was decided LONG before they ever entered the picture...

I was not okay with Iran taking hostages, I did not think they should get anything back from the US...

but guess what no one asked me....

but a tribunal convened during Reagan's administration did make that decision...

The deal with Iran was not about the return of those funds....the funds were to be returned whether that agreement happened or not....

Trump undid the deal with Iran because it had too many restrictions on foreign policy in the middle east...that had nothing to do with money sent to Iran...

I always thought Iran could go fuck themselves...but that does not change FACTS...

FACTS:

Money was not from US tax dollars it was frozen assets

Congress had no say over the funds being returned it was decided by a tribunal...

it was no Obama's idea to give them the money...

it was not part of the Iran deal to remove sanctions for denuclearizing.

-- Edited by Nuffan on Wednesday 19th of June 2019 04:50:56 PM

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

I'd have to disagree, interest was paid on the money.

You keep making excuses for Iran, then in the next paragraph you'll say they can get bent - which one is it? Sounds like double talk!

And this tribunal that you speak of, who pays for that? Who runs it?

You keep pointing the finger as far back as Reagan but it want under Reagan that the seizure happened! Tax dollars are being used to pay ALL of the actors in this civil / tribunal scam! You seem so willing to dismiss the fact that this IS costing taxpayers money!

Sending 1000 troops to the Gulf of Oman is COSTING TAX PAYERS MONEY!

And in recent events, Iran has rounded up a bunch of people they claim are working in American intelligence - so again, more hostages.

You make a lot of excuses for Iran, yet none of them excuse Iran! So you must be OK with all that Iran is doing!

It is the equivalent of using hostages and terror to extort money and favor from the United States. Conditions and "snap-back" provisions are the "details" that govern our agreements and quite frankly the entire deal should have been called off when they took our people hostage because it does not matter when the optics clearly substantiate the narrative that Obama and Kerry paid Iran for hostages. Regardless of the particulars, they took American Military hostages and did not release them until Obama loaded up a plane full of money! I wouldn't doubt if our hostages were flown back on the same planes that dropped off the money!

Nuffan · No longer a user - left on their own accord.

There is all kinds of information about the moneys frozen by Jimmy Carter in 1979...

Pick any source you like LOOK it up, they all say the same thing...

This is from a business insider story:

After the eventual release of the hostages in 1981, tentative talks began over the disposition of assets in the U.S. that had been frozen by President Carter in 1979. The discussions quickly became complicated, in part because of the difficulty of identifying personal and governmental assets, and tracking down assets of the deposed Shah, which the Iranian government insisted rightly belonged to the Iraqi people.

Many of the assets blocked by Carter in 1979 were unfrozen in 1981 after the signing of the Algiers Accords and the end of the hostage crisis.

More than 25 years after Newsom's observation, the issue is still a complicated one. The U.S. has actually released billions of dollars to Iran already, such as the nearly $3 billion released last summer as a show of good faith during the negotiations over Iran's nuclear program.

However, according to the Congressional Research Service, there is still a substantial amount of money, real estate and other property being held.

The embassy in Washington was impounded by the United States and rented out, as were 10 other properties in various locations. The real estate and accumulated rent is estimated to be worth $50 million.

At the time of the 1979 revolution, Iran's deposed government had been waiting on the delivery of some $400 million in military equipment, for which it had already paid. The Pentagon later re-sold that equipment and the money was placed in an escrow account.

Later executive actions blocked financial assets owned directly or indirectly by Iran's central bank, major companies, and various government and military entities.

-- Edited by Nuffan on Wednesday 19th of June 2019 05:40:33 PM

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Nuffan wrote:

At the time of the 1979 revolution, Iran's deposed government had been waiting on the delivery of some $400 million in military equipment, for which it had already paid. The Pentagon later re-sold that equipment and the money was placed in an escrow account.
Later executive actions blocked financial assets owned directly or indirectly by Iran's central bank, major companies, and various government and military entities.

I guess you would have to be a pretty dumb mother fucker to rock the boat back in 1979 with $400 million in military equipment on order from the US!

Now here is something I need you to answer me Nuffan, if the $400 million was placed in an "escrow account" it was not making interest! You do know what an escrow account is, Nuffan? Do you?

Here is something else, if they only paid $400 million back in 1979 and got paid back nearly $1.5 BILLION in 2015 ($400 million of it CASH) - then tell me... WHERE DID THE OTHER $1 BILLION DOLLARS COME FROM!?

It sure as fuck didn't come from that non-interest bearing escrow account! Some serious BS here and you seem more than happy to make excuses for Iran! Why?!

-- Edited by SELLC on Wednesday 19th of June 2019 05:44:25 PM

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

And now you are suggesting that we should entertain money they lost in rent for buildings they forfeit when they broke their alliance with the USA!?

GTFOH!

Nuffan · No longer a user - left on their own accord.

SELLC wrote:
I'd have to disagree, interest was paid on the money.
You keep making excuses for Iran, then in the next paragraph you'll say they can get bent - which one is it? Sounds like double talk!
And this tribunal that you speak of, who pays for that? Who runs it?
You keep pointing the finger as far back as Reagan but it want under Reagan that the seizure happened! Tax dollars are being used to pay ALL of the actors in this civil / tribunal scam! You seem so willing to dismiss the fact that this IS costing taxpayers money!
Sending 1000 troops to the Gulf of Oman is COSTING TAX PAYERS MONEY!
And in recent events, Iran has rounded up a bunch of people they claim are working in American intelligence - so again, more hostages.
You make a lot of excuses for Iran, yet none of them excuse Iran! So you must be OK with all that Iran is doing!
It is the equivalent of using hostages and terror to extort money and favor from the United States. Conditions and "snap-back" provisions are the "details" that govern our agreements and quite frankly the entire deal should have been called off when they took our people hostage because it does not matter when the optics clearly substantiate the narrative that Obama and Kerry paid Iran for hostages. Regardless of the particulars, they took American Military hostages and did not release them until Obama loaded up a plane full of money! I wouldn't doubt if our hostages were flown back on the same planes that dropped off the money!

I am simply EXPLAINING to you WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED....

I am not cheerleading it...

You are being fucking ignorant...

NO TAX DOLLARS ARE EVER SPENT by the government that is not appropriated through Congress...EVER...PERIOD...

The billions returned to IRAN were frozen assets...NO TAX DOLLARS....

sending troops there now is a cost and will use tax payer dollars, but those dollars will be appropriated through Congress...

You wanting to INSIST this is all Obama's doing is where you are WRONG...

YOU WANT THAT NARRATIVE so you are reaching for it...

truth is we have been slowly allowing this money to be returned since the Algiers Accords in 1981...

Obama using it to grease his deal is not treason...

His deal you might make an argument about...but the release of money frozen that is already been decided will be returned is not the issue...

His deal was all about how the US could go forward in the region and it was a crock of shit...

I would be fine with leaving the shit hole...but if we are going to stay in the middle east we do not need Obama policy handcuffing the US military...

-- Edited by Nuffan on Wednesday 19th of June 2019 05:51:59 PM

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

This is all you need to know, Nuffan

"the Obama administration negotiated privately with Tehran, which agreed to settle for $1.7 billion. The $400 million stacked on pallets was the first installment."

https://time.com/4441046/400-million-iran-hostage-history/

So explain to me HOW a non interest bearing escrow account from 1979 with $400 million in it would somehow grow to $1.7 billion dollars?

It was dirty! It's still dirty! And the sad part is nothing will be done about it because people like YOU want to lie!

Who are you Nuffan, really?

-- Edited by SELLC on Wednesday 19th of June 2019 05:51:23 PM

Nuffan · No longer a user - left on their own accord.

SELLC wrote:
This is all you need to know, Nuffan
"the Obama administration negotiated privately with Tehran, which agreed to settle for $1.7 billion. The $400 million stacked on pallets was the first installment."
https://time.com/4441046/400-million-iran-hostage-history/
So explain to me HOW a non interest bearing escrow account from 1979 with $400 million in it would somehow grow to $1.7 billion dollars?
It was dirty! It's still dirty! And the sad part is nothing will be done about it because people like YOU want to lie!
Who are you Nuffan, really?

-- Edited by SELLC on Wednesday 19th of June 2019 05:51:23 PM

LOOK DUMB FUCK...I am not lying...

you are conflating a whole lot of things...

we seized well over 100 billion in assets...

A LOT MORE THAN $400 million

The $400 million is just a dollar amount associated to military aircraft purchase in the middle 1970's

The U.S. has actually released billions of dollars to Iran already, such as the "nearly $3 billion released last summer" as a show of good faith during the negotiations over Iran's nuclear program.

We released $3 billion last summer on a negotiated 1.7 billion dollars???

You are conflating a lot of different unrelated stories to make it read the way you want to fucking hear it...

And according to YOU it is all MY fault...you fucking moron...

LMAO

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Nuffan wrote:

I am simply EXPLAINING to you WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED....

I am not cheerleading it...

You are being fucking ignorant...

NO TAX DOLLARS ARE EVER SPENT by the government that is not appropriated through Congress...EVER...PERIOD...

The billions returned to IRAN were frozen assets...NO TAX DOLLARS....

sending troops there now is a cost and will use tax payer dollars, but those dollars will be appropriated through Congress...

You wanting to INSIST this is all Obama's doing is where you are WRONG...

YOU WANT THAT NARRATIVE so you are reaching for it...

truth is we have been slowly allowing this money to be returned since the Algiers Accords in 1981...

Obama using it to grease his deal is not treason...

His deal you might make an argument about...but the release of money frozen that is already been decided will be returned is not the issue...

His deal was all about how the US could go forward in the region and it was a crock of shit...

I would be fine with leaving the shit hole...but if we are going to stay in the middle east we do not need Obama policy handcuffing the US military...

You are NOT explaining to me what actually happened! You still have yet to explain how $400 million turned into $1.7 billion dollars!

YOUR OWN FUCKING ARTICLE THAT YOU POSTED SAID IT WAS OBAMA! Can you read!?

the Obama administration negotiated privately with Tehran, which agreed to settle for $1.7 billion. The $400 million stacked on pallets was the first installment.

https://time.com/4441046/400-million-iran-hostage-history/

Now you are making excuses for Obama!? Saying that him paying for hostages and making a cash deal with a state sponsor of terror is not treason!?

If you really WOULD explain yourself, there might not be any problems but the truth is you are just making excuses.

I feel Iran should be treated how Iran treats others!

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Nuffan wrote:

LOOK DUMB FUCK...I am not lying...

you are conflating a whole lot of things...

we seized well over 100 billion in assets...

A LOT MORE THAN $400 million

The $400 million is just a dollar amount associated to military aircraft purchase in the middle 1970's

The U.S. has actually released billions of dollars to Iran already, such as the "nearly $3 billion released last summer" as a show of good faith during the negotiations over Iran's nuclear program.

We released $3 billion last summer on a negotiated 1.7 billion dollars???

You are conflating a lot of different unrelated stories to make it read the way you want to fucking hear it...

And according to YOU it is all MY fault...you fucking moron...

LMAO

Look, you and PowerStroker run around here claiming that some secret account was set up and maintained by congress (which didn't come from the tax payers - which basically means it's unicorn money because where the fuck else could it come from). Now you run around here like a couple of morons claiming that this secret account of magic money that didn't come from anywhere but thin air, allowed Obama the right to negotiate a deal with Iran for hostages in the amount of $1.7 billion dollars, $400 million of it in cash?

GTFOH!

Where does money come from if not from the tax payers!? Who pays the people who are in congress!? When we build planes who pays for it? Magic money? Are they selling unicorn horns for this money!? Every fucking penny that comes and goes thru this nation is the property of the people of the United States! EVERY SINGLE PENNY!

No wonder they had to make the deal in private! It would have NEVER passed the people we elect to oversee this stuff.

-- Edited by SELLC on Wednesday 19th of June 2019 06:14:15 PM

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Nuffan wrote:

you are conflating a whole lot of things...

we seized well over 100 billion in assets...

A LOT MORE THAN $400 million

The $400 million is just a dollar amount associated to military aircraft purchase in the middle 1970's

You are conflating a lot of different unrelated stories to make it read the way you want to fucking hear it...

And according to YOU it is all MY fault...you fucking moron...

I am not conflating ANYTHING!

Now you're saying that we seized $100 billion!? But they were only suing in the tribunal for $10 billion!

WTF Nuffan!? It's right there in your little "Time" magazine article!

It is your fault.

Nuffan · No longer a user - left on their own accord.

SELLC wrote:
Nuffan wrote:

LOOK DUMB FUCK...I am not lying...

you are conflating a whole lot of things...

we seized well over 100 billion in assets...

A LOT MORE THAN $400 million

The $400 million is just a dollar amount associated to military aircraft purchase in the middle 1970's

The U.S. has actually released billions of dollars to Iran already, such as the "nearly $3 billion released last summer" as a show of good faith during the negotiations over Iran's nuclear program.

We released $3 billion last summer on a negotiated 1.7 billion dollars???

You are conflating a lot of different unrelated stories to make it read the way you want to fucking hear it...

And according to YOU it is all MY fault...you fucking moron...

LMAO

Look, you and PowerStroker run around here claiming that some secret account was set up and maintained by congress (which didn't come from the tax payers - which basically means it's unicorn money because where the fuck else could it come from). Now you run around here like a couple of morons claiming that this secret account of magic money that didn't come from anywhere but thin air, allowed Obama the right to negotiate a deal with Iran for hostages in the amount of $1.7 billion dollars, $400 million of it in cash?
GTFOH!
Where does money come from if not from the tax payers!? Who pays the people who are in congress!? When we build planes who pays for it? Magic money? Are they selling unicorn horns for this money!? Every fucking penny that comes and goes thru this nation is the property of the people of the United States! EVERY SINGLE PENNY!
No wonder they had to make the deal in private! It would have NEVER passed the people we elect to oversee this stuff.

-- Edited by SELLC on Wednesday 19th of June 2019 06:14:15 PM

Where did I say there was any special account set up....

I said and maintained the entire time we seized assets...

The only MONEY in an account was money paid in earnest for military aircraft...that is the $400 million number...

$400 million in cash and many other assets in total of nearly $100 billion...

We have been releasing it over the years a big portion of it as early as 1981, you are just not wanting to hear that...

you want to focus on the number $400 million and conflate from there...

We have also held it over their head for several decades as well...do you have any real clue what $400 million in 1979 would be today with inflation factored in...

not that it really matters....that is one amount for one aircraft order...and a drop in the bucket to what we froze overall and seized...

Read about what was returned under Reagan, then under HW Bush then under Obama...a hell of a lot more than $400 million...lol

READ about it...do not let some site read you a narrative...actually go look up what happened...

Nuffan · No longer a user - left on their own accord.

and when the government sells planes they sell planes they paid lockheed martin to make...or boeing...and generally at huge profits to the government...it is why they sell them...

and the tax dollars used to build them was appropriated through congress...

mostly we sell older aircraft as we develop newer aircraft...it is a mainstay of the military industrial complex...

FYI my father worked for Lockheed Martin for 35 years...

Nuffan · No longer a user - left on their own accord.

Whats Behind the Financial Dispute Between the U.S. and Iran?

In November 1979, Irans revolutionary government took 52 Americans hostages at the U.S. embassy, and the U.S. severed diplomatic relations with Tehran. In retaliation, Washington froze $12 billion in Iranian assets held on our shores. The hostage crisis was resolved in 1981 at a conference in Algiers, and the U.S. returned $3 billion to Iran, with more funds going either to pay creditors, or into escrow. The two nations also established a tribunal in the Hague called the Iran United States Claims Tribunal to settle claims both leveled by each government against the other, U.S. citizens versus Iran, and vice versa.

3 of 12 billion returned immediately in 1981...

but yet you are fixated on the $400 million figure...

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

It's quite obvious you think Iran is right, regardless of your double talk you are trying to justify the Obama administrations actions.

Quite devastating to your narrative, loading up a plane full of cash and paying Iran for hostages is NOT something ANY of the Presidents have EVER done in the 30 years this has been ongoing. That is a FACT!

Now you can convolute this discussion by mixing in all kinds of other claims, totally $100 billion by your estimation - but the bottom line is Iran is not on the level and you are full of shit.

Kicking the can down the road is the hallmark of the Obama administration, but his last act when he sent a plane full of cash to Iran for hostages is not in any way justifiable!

But you can keep on with your absurd ideas about how it's all justifiable but may I remind you that it is IRAN who has done this to themselves and people like YOU who have continued to allow it for 30 years.

The gig is up.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Nuffan wrote:
Whats Behind the Financial Dispute Between the U.S. and Iran?
In November 1979, Irans revolutionary government took 52 Americans hostages at the U.S. embassy, and the U.S. severed diplomatic relations with Tehran. In retaliation, Washington froze $12 billion in Iranian assets held on our shores. The hostage crisis was resolved in 1981 at a conference in Algiers, and the U.S. returned $3 billion to Iran, with more funds going either to pay creditors, or into escrow. The two nations also established a tribunal in the Hague called the Iran United States Claims Tribunal to settle claims both leveled by each government against the other, U.S. citizens versus Iran, and vice versa.

So what!?

This "tribunal" was only set up AFTER we clamped down on Iran. Yet we keep having to snap-back each and every time they get a little money because they can't control themselves and go right back to their old shenanigans!

What was paid back in 1981 was done so in a proper way, not by loading up a plane full of cash in the dark of night and NEVER in exchange for hostages or a "deal".

If it can ever be proven that one PENNY of that $400 million in cash made it's way back into Obama's or Kerry's pocket then they would be guilty of treason! The fact they made this deal behind closed doors and paid it with some mystery account is not something the American people will EVER understand, especially the ones who have all of their social security in the General Ledger that now seems to be missing. But it will just be some more bullshit from people like you who just don't seem to give a damn.

If you think loading up a plane with $400 million in cash is fine, you have a problem. If you think paying $400 million in CASH ($1.7 billion total) for a "deal" and our servicemembers who were being held hostage, you have a problem. That is what we are talking about here and your efforts to include other issues into this discussion is only to deflect from the most recent facts at hand. I would say that this action by the Obama Administration was one of the top three reasons why the electoral college voted for Trump because people were ANGRY! And they had every right to be! But you want to sit on here and try to justify it, well I got news for you - there is no justification! NONE!

Nuffan · No longer a user - left on their own accord.

"You are NOT explaining to me what actually happened! You still have yet to explain how $400 million turned into $1.7 billion dollars!"

U.S. Inflation Rate, $400,000,000 in 1979 to 2019
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price index, today's prices in 2019 are 252.74% higher than average prices throughout 1979. The dollar experienced an average inflation rate of 3.20% per year during this period, meaning the real value of a dollar decreased.
In other words, $400,000,000 in 1979 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $1,410,975,206.61 in 2019, a difference of $1,010,975,206.61 over 40 years.

There is your fucking explanation on how 400 million became 1.7 billion

just because you do not understand is not my fault...

did you really think we could take $400 million 40 years ago and simply return $400 million and call it resolved?

FTR - I was not aware it was my JOB to explain anything to you...

-- Edited by Nuffan on Thursday 20th of June 2019 09:57:53 AM

Nuffan · No longer a user - left on their own accord.

SELLC wrote:

If you think loading up a plane with $400 million in cash is fine, you have a problem. If you think paying $400 million in CASH ($1.7 billion total) for a "deal" and our servicemembers who were being held hostage, you have a problem. That is what we are talking about here and your efforts to include other issues into this discussion is only to deflect from the most recent facts at hand. I would say that this action by the Obama Administration was one of the top three reasons why the electoral college voted for Trump because people were ANGRY! And they had every right to be! But you want to sit on here and try to justify it, well I got news for you - there is no justification! NONE!

I do not think a plane was loaded with $400 million in cash...and you have not provided any evidence that happened....

I never once tried to justify anything...simply told you what really took place...I even stated I disagree with what was done...

just because I disagree with this notion some plane was loaded by hand by Obama and Kerry from some secret account in the cover of night fall (LMAO) does not mean I justify ANY OF IT....

The deal that was agreed to by the United States and several other nations including European union happened during Obama's second term...

I did not like the deal, I did not support the decision...but I do know that the money Iran got was because of sanctions lifted that freed previously frozen funds...

You keep going off about some secret account and then try and conflate everything to tax dollars of the United States....you do realize our central banks hold trillions in funds belonging to other countries...those dollars are not US TAX PAYER DOLLARS...

When the hostage situation took place in 1979 President Jimmy Carter froze over $12 billion in cash...he did not freeze US tax dollars...he froze funds belonging to Iran...

The tribunal set up in 1981 was to oversee the return of that $12 billion as well as other considerations like the $400 million which was not frozen but was money we were paid then never provided the planes...I get you think that is Iran's fault (hell I do not even disagree with you on the thought) but the tribunal in 1981 DID disagree and that was when it was decided that all this money would be returned...LONG before Obama was even in politics...

-- Edited by Nuffan on Thursday 20th of June 2019 10:14:08 AM

Nuffan · No longer a user - left on their own accord.

What is hysterical is you haven't a clue of what really took place....yet...you quickly determined that what we returned in 1981 was done correctly and what was returned under Obama was illegal and treasonous...

This idea that a sitting president would have to do something late at night to keep it a secret??? Are you fucking serious????

All this said....

If it were up to me...

Iran would have never gotten one cent back from the United States...

I would have turned Iran into a Sundial back in 1981...right after we got our people back...PROBLEM SOLVED

There would be no need for any Tribunal...

but it was not up to me...

and what ACTUALLY happened was a United Nations Tribunal determined what would happen...and it was determined the US would return certain parts of the frozen assets, it was not as simple as the common layman wants to make it out...

it was deliberately drawn out over 40 years, in drawing it out now inflation and interest has to be factored in...again I do not agree, but that is what was decided...by people I do not even know...

Will any of this impact tax dollars I honestly can not answer that one...but if it does start requiring US tax dollars those dollars will have to be appropriated through Congress.

I do not know the accounting of the original $12 billion, we do know the $400 million a separate amount all together was placed in escrow. I do know that we immediately returned $3 billion in 1981...

The other $9 billion? I have no accounting for where that money was kept did we use it was it sitting in an account, did it draw interest, was it invested in some diversified plan?...THESE ARE THINGS BEYOND what we know for fact...

What was the currency that they loaded on the pallets in the middle of the night?

What was the currency used when we returned the $3 billion in 1981?

Since you seem so convinced you're right and I am wrong and that I support Iran...surely you have all these answers...

-- Edited by Nuffan on Thursday 20th of June 2019 10:57:59 AM

Nuffan · No longer a user - left on their own accord.

My Dad who worked for Lockheed Martin in Marietta Georgia told me in the middle 1980's that they had setup a special configuration on a C-5 to go and pick up the hostages in 1980, Carter pulled the plug on the plan.

They needed a way to load them all incredibly fast and needed to be able to take off from a very short runway...

Needless to say my Dad was not a fan of Carter...

My Dad was actually heart broken and ashamed because of Nixon...to my knowledge he voted for him both times and believed in him...he stayed home from work to watch and record (audio) of his resignation.

My family in general were huge Reagan fans...I was just coming of age when Reagan was elected...so most of my opinion of him is more looking back on it...

I think Reagan like Bush was an establishment politician...sure he was a former actor...but he was not the outsider Trump has been...he was governor of California for many years before running for president...

and he was part of the political establishment that has taken hold of this country since the assassination of John F Kennedy.

Trump was not part of the establishment...this is why so many in DC are against him...They will do anything at this point to stop him from getting a second term...

and if Trump wins a second term and I think he will...I fear for his life...one of the far left whackos will attempt to assassinate him..mark my words...

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Nuffan wrote:

"You are NOT explaining to me what actually happened! You still have yet to explain how $400 million turned into $1.7 billion dollars!"

U.S. Inflation Rate, $400,000,000 in 1979 to 2019
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price index, today's prices in 2019 are 252.74% higher than average prices throughout 1979. The dollar experienced an average inflation rate of 3.20% per year during this period, meaning the real value of a dollar decreased.
In other words, $400,000,000 in 1979 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $1,410,975,206.61 in 2019, a difference of $1,010,975,206.61 over 40 years.

There is your fucking explanation on how 400 million became 1.7 billion

just because you do not understand is not my fault...

did you really think we could take $400 million 40 years ago and simply return $400 million and call it resolved?

FTR - I was not aware it was my JOB to explain anything to you...

FTR - We don't owe Iran SHIT!

Also, Iran is barred from collecting interest by the tenants of Islam that denounce such things - yet they want us to pay them interest on money that was frozen because they fucked up!

Fuck you and fuck them! We shouldn't have paid a single PENNY of interest or inflation - or whatever you want to call it!

So thanks to Kerry and Obama Iran now feels that they can blow shit up and take hostages, then when we freeze their money it's like an interest bearing savings account!? You people are so fucking stupid it's no wonder this nation is in debt!

When Iran fucks up it should cost IRAN! Not the USA!

I got a feeling that under President Trump we will invade and pillage Iran for EVERY SINGLE CENT! It's not going to be like Iraq where we give stuff back - we are going to make Iran PAY!

So far that tab is up to a few oil tankers and a drone that was recently shot down - Plus $1.7 Billion dollars! YOU WATCH!

Nuffan · No longer a user - left on their own accord.

SELLC wrote:
I'd have to disagree, interest was paid on the money.
You keep making excuses for Iran, then in the next paragraph you'll say they can get bent - which one is it? Sounds like double talk!
And this tribunal that you speak of, who pays for that? Who runs it?
You keep pointing the finger as far back as Reagan but it want under Reagan that the seizure happened! Tax dollars are being used to pay ALL of the actors in this civil / tribunal scam! You seem so willing to dismiss the fact that this IS costing taxpayers money!
Sending 1000 troops to the Gulf of Oman is COSTING TAX PAYERS MONEY!
And in recent events, Iran has rounded up a bunch of people they claim are working in American intelligence - so again, more hostages.
You make a lot of excuses for Iran, yet none of them excuse Iran! So you must be OK with all that Iran is doing!
It is the equivalent of using hostages and terror to extort money and favor from the United States. Conditions and "snap-back" provisions are the "details" that govern our agreements and quite frankly the entire deal should have been called off when they took our people hostage because it does not matter when the optics clearly substantiate the narrative that Obama and Kerry paid Iran for hostages. Regardless of the particulars, they took American Military hostages and did not release them until Obama loaded up a plane full of money! I wouldn't doubt if our hostages were flown back on the same planes that dropped off the money!

Telling you the facts of what actually took place is NOT making excuses for Iran...

I was quite clear I would have not given them one cent...

I am not okay with anything Iran does....

Can you not read???

I gave you the KNOWN facts of this....

What we do not know is total dollar amounts returned to Iran....we know they got a large sum of cash we know it was not US currency but foreign currency, we do not know the specifics of the foreign currency...

We have no accounting what so ever on the remaining $9 billion frozen.

I am sure the tribunal has some form of accounting I have not seen it or seen it published.

The tribunal was put in place 4 decades ago...

How much of the frozen assets were in actual gold, which would mean we would not need tax dollars to cover the inflation...

ALL I have done is explain to you what really happened and the facts we have confirmed...

How you take anything I have written here as making excuses for Iran baffles the shit out of me....

I did give Obama a pass on treason (for this particular issue) claiming this was his idea is foolish...

Obama allowed his agreement to unfreeze assets, if we kept gold and gave them foreign currency....we made a good deal....lol

unfortunately we just do not have that LEVEL of detail at this point....we have a lot of false stories from both sides spread about it...

and you keep talking about sending troops...yes that always cost tax dollars, those dollars have to be appropriated through congress and were...

when in this thread I was saying it was not tax dollars I am specifically referring to the so called cash return to Iran by Obama...

-- Edited by Nuffan on Friday 21st of June 2019 10:14:15 AM

Nuffan · No longer a user - left on their own accord.

SELLC wrote:
Nuffan wrote:

"You are NOT explaining to me what actually happened! You still have yet to explain how $400 million turned into $1.7 billion dollars!"

U.S. Inflation Rate, $400,000,000 in 1979 to 2019
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price index, today's prices in 2019 are 252.74% higher than average prices throughout 1979. The dollar experienced an average inflation rate of 3.20% per year during this period, meaning the real value of a dollar decreased.
In other words, $400,000,000 in 1979 is equivalent in purchasing power to about $1,410,975,206.61 in 2019, a difference of $1,010,975,206.61 over 40 years.

There is your fucking explanation on how 400 million became 1.7 billion

just because you do not understand is not my fault...

did you really think we could take $400 million 40 years ago and simply return $400 million and call it resolved?

FTR - I was not aware it was my JOB to explain anything to you...

FTR - We don't owe Iran SHIT!
Also, Iran is barred from collecting interest by the tenants of Islam that denounce such things - yet they want us to pay them interest on money that was frozen because they fucked up!
Fuck you and fuck them! We shouldn't have paid a single PENNY of interest or inflation - or whatever you want to call it!
So thanks to Kerry and Obama Iran now feels that they can blow shit up and take hostages, then when we freeze their money it's like an interest bearing savings account!? You people are so fucking stupid it's no wonder this nation is in debt!
When Iran fucks up it should cost IRAN! Not the USA!
I got a feeling that under President Trump we will invade and pillage Iran for EVERY SINGLE CENT! It's not going to be like Iraq where we give stuff back - we are going to make Iran PAY!
So far that tab is up to a few oil tankers and a drone that was recently shot down - Plus $1.7 Billion dollars! YOU WATCH!

Please show me where I said we owe Iran anything...

A tribunal in 1981 ruled we had to return money they had here...

which includes money we took for planes we never delivered on.

PS I did some checking we had the option of sending them the planes, we decided to return the money and long before Obama was even in politics...

you want to sit back with we do not owe...take that up with the tribunal who ruled otherwise....

I am not defending Iran simply telling you the facts of why this money has been going back to Iran over the last 40 years....

and the reason it was not just all returned in 1981 is incredibly complicated...

but those in Congress knew it was not illegal what took place....and when it took place it was a republican controlled congress they would have started impeachment charges had it not been kosher...

Democrats do things Republicans do not like...Republicans do things democrats do not like...does not mean they broke the law when they do...

Just part of the yin and yang of this republic we have...

-- Edited by Nuffan on Friday 21st of June 2019 10:23:18 AM

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Nuffan wrote:

Just part of the yin and yang of this republic we have...

Got your yin-yang right here Nuffan! LOL

Rastus · UNSTOPPABLE!

OK...So here we are discussing $$$ sent to Iran, to hopefully maintain a "no nukes" policy...

Now let's see who's making $$$ out of this screen-play...Any guesses ?...

Read on please.

www.counterpunch.org/2020/01/09/meet-the-ceos-cashing-in-on-trumps-aggression-against-iran/

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Don't even want to hear it Rastus! Pack it in bud!

NO-ONE can deny that packing a plane with over a billion in cash was a very BAD precedent to set!

The deal should have been scrapped the moment Iran took US military personnel hostage - but that did not stop Obama and Co.! For that reason ALONE, they should all be held to account! WTF were they thinking!? There can only be ONE thing to make them so blind to the facts and that was self enrichment!

Prior to us giving Iran $150 billion dollars (over a billion in cash) we had a stedfast policy of NEVER giving into terrorist demands! That stedfast policy is now considered up for debate and it was by far the biggest mistake of Obamas entire tenure!

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

We didn't give them money, we returned THEIR money by order of an international court that we helped set up.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker wrote:
We didn't give them money, we returned THEIR money by order of an international court that we helped set up.

I don't know why you have to be so thick headed... I guess you just like looking like an idiot is all I can figure.

Anyway, last time - Iran purchased some military gear from the USA a long-long time ago when their regime was not a terrorist organization. Soon as the order was filled, and before it was delivered they pulled the typical Iran scam by replacing the government with terrorist anti-American leaders. The USA, WELL WITHIN IT'S RIGHTS - withheld the oder and the money. Now many would say that such bait and switch tactics require a penalty to prevent further situations like this in the future. This issue was in court and it was being litigated, but your idiot idol decided to get a deal signed he would just SETTLE the case outside of court for $150 billion dollars and over one billion in cash. And that might have been a good idea until Iran took several of our service members hostage! Yet that did not seem to bother dumb ass Obama, who still went ahead with the deal! That was the treason right there! That is when he should have said like all the other strong Presidents before him that enough was enough, and let the case work its way thru court where we would have probably won anyway because we never agreed to sell Iran military equipment with an terroristic Anti-American government in place because we know they would probably just shoot some commercial airliner out of the sky! Fast forward to 2020, and Iran shot a commercial airliner out of the sky with the money Obama gave them. They bought their weapons from Russia this time and they did what all other Presidents before Obama prevented, which was the loss of innocent lives at the hands of a terrorist rouge nation!

So once you get your head out of your ass, please feel to respond... There can be no denying the facts as I have stated them above. Obama needs to be held to account for his dealings with Iran!

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Just how recently was that case being litigated exactly? And under what right was the US operating when they decided not to deliver the merchandise AND keep their money?

I'm sure the international court is dying to know, and I'm surprised our government's lawyers didn't bring it up decades ago when the case was actually in court.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Tell you what PowerStroker, call up ANY family member for one of the 170+ people who died in the commercial airliner that got shot down and ask them that question!

Just a shame your party has you sympathizing with the likes of Iran.. pathetic! I am shocked you don't get your ass kicked more at the dealer, then again you do live in Minnesota - run by a refugee Iran supporter.

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

I ain't sympathizing with shit bro. I'm just saying the money was theirs all along not US taxpayer money. That fact is not changed by plane being shot down.

Always emotion with you isn't it.

Rastus · UNSTOPPABLE!

I know it's only Wiki, but let's learn more about Iran, & it's nukes, & "atoms for peace"...

Very surprised to learn that they got a Nuke plant in the 1950's, from the US-of-A.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_program_of_Iran

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

PowerStroker wrote:
I ain't sympathizing with shit bro. I'm just saying the money was theirs all along not US taxpayer money. That fact is not changed by plane being shot down.

Always emotion with you isn't it.

No it wasn't theirs PowerStroker! If you special order something there are usually no refunds...

Perhaps they should have remained a loyal and peaceful ally of the USA and they would have gotten their arms? It's clear they aren't too bright! They could have waited until AFTER the delivery to pull a stunt but you know Iran...

The money was not theirs once they placed the order! The conditions and stipulations were CLEAR and they broke them.

I know current events make you and your party look even more guilty, but it's not like we didn't tell you so!

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

The international court that decided the issue disagrees.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

People like you so willing to cede our independence to some international court... LOL FA-Q!

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Not me, the people who took Iranian money and didn't deliver the merchandise ceded our independence in the matter. If it was independence they wanted, then they never should have entered in to a contract with a foreign country for the sale of weapons.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Conditional sale of weapons... read the fine print kiddo!

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

Reading the fine print is what the court is for, and I'm sure they did.

SELLC · CERTIFIED POST WHORE

Excuse me PowerStroker, but exactly how does the "court" decide something when the payment was considered a "settlement"? Doesn't the fact that Obama "settled" negate any possible "ruling"?

And was this court overseen by a Jury of our peers as the constitution requires for major lawsuits?

If not, no foreign court order would have been binding here in the USA!

Quit lying to people PowerStroker, you don't want to look like a sore loser!

Perhaps you need to post up a link to this Kangaroo courts "ruling" because we all know what a mockery of Justice such a liberal court would spawn, but we want to see this "ruling" you speak of!

So c'mon man, lets see the transcripts for the "ruling" you claim this international Kangaroo court made!

Put up or shut up...

PowerStroker · UNSTOPPABLE!

A jury trial is the right of the defendant in a criminal trial, but not always used in a civil trial. This was a civil dispute between nations in which both sides were equally represented and agreed to the format of the proceeding.

https://time.com/4441046/400-million-iran-hostage-history/

http://www.iusct.net/General%20Documents/2-Claims%20Settlement%20Declaration.pdf

In order to access the actual transcript of the case, you must set up a user account here: https://www.iusct.net/Pages/Login.aspx

"Access to the Tribunal's public database is limited to academic users and international organizations, and the Tribunal reserves the right to reject any requests for access in its sole discretion."