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Post Info TOPIC: Ford Triton VVT Cam phasers / solenoids - timing chains


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Ford Triton VVT Cam phasers / solenoids - timing chains


Noticing a lot of these triton Ford trucks are coming in with the classic worn out timing components that usually see a problem with the cam phaser getting glitchy and a check engine code P0345 Camshaft Position Sensor "A" circuit bank 2... it will also follow with a nice healthy knock / tapping sound that will at higher RPM's go away. The onset can sometimes take awhile before it will even set a code and during this time the customer will usually complain of a low RPM rough idle / lack of power that just goes away for awhile after a few little revs. 

So absent any connection issues, and the fact this truck as about 250k miles on its stock timing components and phasers I figured I'd price out a kit. I am shocked at how reasonable some of these eBay kits are complete with phasers, solenoids and the whole ball of wax. Was wondering what everyone else thought because there is tremendous value in getting ALL the parts in a kit and just doing it all while in there... I mean if the cover is coming off it would be crazy not to replace it all.

What say everyone? You have had to have done loads of timing chains and phasers by now PowerStroker... if I am seeing them, then I know you guys are! Also been kicking around the idea of a reman engine because at 250k, how many more miles you think it's going to make before something else shits the bed!?



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Hey mate,

Should the customers be happy with after-market parts to save costs, go-for-it.

I'd do a cylinder leak-down test to determine if you need to go down the path of a full engine rebuild. The cost of cylinder-head reconditioning will likely cost more than you'll charge for all the other work done.

If you have some splash-cash, you can tool-up & do the valve-grinding, seat reconditioning & valve guides yourself. All the machine-shop will have to do is hot-tank & resurfacing.

Piston rings, bearings, & the gasket set are cheap enough.

If the cars seen regular servicing, & run on good gasoline ( 98 oct ) I'd guess 500,000 km or 300,000 mls before some head-work is in real-need of being done. But it's all relative to how the cars driven & hours of use in stagnant city traffic, yadda, yadda, yadda...

Do the leak-down test.



-- Edited by Rastus on Sunday 24th of March 2019 09:45:24 PM



-- Edited by Rastus on Sunday 24th of March 2019 09:46:02 PM

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Sure, a reman engine should only cost about $8k installed...

But new cam phasers and chain about $1,800-$2,200... 

We're talking a $6k spread here and outside of the intermittent phaser it runs good with lots of power.

 



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Before you get excited with the idea that replacing a timing set will solve all problems you need to check the cam caps for scoring. This is a very common problem on the 3v triton engines... The cam bearing surfaces wear out and starve the vct system for oil pressure. If this is the case, all the new timing parts in the world won't fix it. We usually long block these when we see wear on the cam caps because 2 new heads with all timing components and labor is about the same as a long block installed price wise at the dealer.



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BTW, if you decide this is one of the rare fixable trucks, you NEED to do new chain tensioners too because the rubber seal behind them blows out and that is the root cause for the accelerated cam bearing wear in the first place.

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Awesome post PowerStroker !

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Yes, I did question how good the oil pressure was at times when this would become an issue however the condition comes and goes and I would be hard pressed to think worn cam caps could cause a intermittent condition. Sometimes it could go a week and not have any issues and we have been chasing this intermittent low idle issue for a long time before the computer finally spit out a code. 

The VVT system is just as you say, oil pressure dependent which means anyone with VVT engines should use the exact weight recommended at the best viscosity they can get at religious change intervals to ensure the VVT system stays in top order.

Since I am not excited about a big Ford taking up my bay with major work I am not excited in the least bit for either case! In fact I just told him exactly what I said above and advised him to get an oil change with the proper weight oil since it has since gone away and the light has not returned. Now had he gone 100k miles on his oil and it come out like Jello-Pudding, like SOME trucks in the past - it might have been a lot worse. He claims to use synthetic at 8k intervals but I have since informed him with his higher 250k milage that interval should be down around 5k, maybe even 3k as it crest the 300k mark, but that's hard for people to do with the cost involved, so I can understand their plight.   



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SELLC wrote:

He claims to use synthetic at 8k intervals


 

Game over, don't try repairing that one, replace only.



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PowerStroker wrote:

BTW, if you decide this is one of the rare fixable trucks, you NEED to do new chain tensioners too because the rubber seal behind them blows out and that is the root cause for the accelerated cam bearing wear in the first place.


 

Yes, the tensioners are also dependent on oil pressure... have been dealing with chains and tensioners on many different makes and models and that is why I was asking around about what people thought of the aftermarket stuff since the kits come complete with everything to refresh the entire timing chain, phasers, guides, tensioners and the whole ball of wax. I been hearing about people also replacing just the one bad phaser with some trickery to hold the chain up, but honestly that would only be something I tried on my own vehicle because there is always that chance the chain falls down. 

You know what else depends on oil pressure? HPOP's ! LOL



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I'd be shoving the old "Slick-50" or similar into one of these engines if I owned one...

Surely someone state-side is re-manufacturing the heads & cam-caps with phosforous-bronze bushes or similar ?...They 'd be better than new once reconditioned like this, & wouldn't wear away along as "some" oil was finding its way to the bushes..

Just sayin'

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Maybe that is how they will invent the new camless engines, with oil pressure regulated by a solenoid?

They do it all the time with just about everything now days.. All this time I been wondering how to get a solenoid strong enough to open a close a valve and now it's clear! Hydraulically with a solenoid! 

It has to be coming! Think of how much savings in drag an engine without any camshafts would save!

With regards to the game-over theory @8k intervals.. I am not convinced because when it's not acting up it runs very smooth with absolutely no noise or issue whatsoever! Although you could be correct in that damage has already been done and it won't be long before even the freshest of oil and newest of components can compensate for the loss of tolerances that lead to low oil pressure.

I must say the newer trucks from 2010-up seem to hold up a whole lot better than the older ones! Maybe because they are being used more for regular transportation now days, and of course technology improvements... but the cost to rebuild them is very expensive! Still just a drop in the bucket to what a new truck will cost, which now days will see you pay about $60k for a V8 4X4 Pickup.

I am sure by the time I get it the best route will be a reman engine... but I am real curious how many miles a Triton engine has in it! 



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Rastus wrote:

I'd be shoving the old "Slick-50" or similar into one of these engines if I owned one...

Surely someone state-side is re-manufacturing the heads & cam-caps with phosforous-bronze bushes or similar ?...They 'd be better than new once reconditioned like this, & wouldn't wear away along as "some" oil was finding its way to the bushes..

Just sayin'


 

Anyone that puts slick-50 in any engine, let alone a VVT engine - deserves what they get! Which will almost certainly be a repair bill for a new engine in somewhat short order! LOL

Slick-50 by design would destroy the VVT system! Probably clog the screens on the VVT solenoids right off the bat! Not even kidding!



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You could always remove the rocker-covers, & start the engine to see how much bleed-off is happening & where...

It shouldn't make too-much of a mess I'd guess, & you'd certainly see irregular oil flows from the caps.

I'd check-out an oil-gallery-diagram, & see how / where the oil is fed into the caps...Or even just inspect or plastigauge suspect ones...

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Valve covers would have to come off to replace phasers anyway so obviously I would check the condition of the cams, followers and compensators at that time.

I don't think running newer OHC engines today without the valve cover is going to yield the results your looking for, unless you're looking for a big mess and possible fire! LOL

Unlike the old 350 engines that would idle at about 10psi of pressure, these newer engines can see 20-30 PSI at an idle and that is going to be messy! 



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SELLC wrote:
Rastus wrote:

I'd be shoving the old "Slick-50" or similar into one of these engines if I owned one...

Surely someone state-side is re-manufacturing the heads & cam-caps with phosforous-bronze bushes or similar ?...They 'd be better than new once reconditioned like this, & wouldn't wear away along as "some" oil was finding its way to the bushes..

Just sayin'


 

Anyone that puts slick-50 in any engine, let alone a VVT engine - deserves what they get! Which will almost certainly be a repair bill for a new engine in somewhat short order! LOL

Slick-50 by design would destroy the VVT system! Probably clog the screens on the VVT solenoids right off the bat! Not even kidding!


 LOL,

Don't be so hard on the 'ol Slick-50 ! It really is great stuff IMO. Just follow the directions, & pour-it-in with the engine HOT & at running temperature, & all should be fine.

We can't get the stuff here in Oz anymore, so we've made our own lol, called E-30, & made by Nulon. I've used it in everything, & it works fine. I throw it in everything, from the Power-steering reservoir ( say 50 ml ), the Auto-trans ( say 100 ml ), & even the diff ( say 50 ml ). It's safe to use in motorcycles with wet-clutches, so that's why I poured some into the transmission, & instantly was rewarded with far smoother shifts.

I've seen a 1990 GSXR-750 race bike on a dyno, making around 100-bhp, & then watched the technician pour a 1/2-bottle of Slick-50 into the engine. It produced 107-bhp straight away...

Maybe in your colder climate, some folks poured-it-in from a cold engine & had troubles, but I wholly believe the stuff is an excellent protectant, lubricant, & performance enhancer.

Whenever I get a new "toy", the first thing on the maintenance list is searching out a bottle lol !



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