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Post Info TOPIC: Is the Biden Administration Killing Your Right To Repair
Well? Are they? [3 vote(s)]

YES
33.3%
NO
33.3%
NO, but really YES!
33.3%
Don't know, don't care! I can't even fix a sandwich
0.0%


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Is the Biden Administration Killing Your Right To Repair


For a long time, automakers have been trying to make it difficult if not illegal to fix your own car, truck, or SUV. The dream of too many in the industry is consumers having to go to a dealership service department for pretty much any maintenance or repair job, violating your right to repair or have an independent shop perform repairs. And it looks like the Biden Administration has just handed them the key to make that dream a reality.

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/biden-administration-kills-repair-150033978.html

This kind of thing REALLY disturbs me to no end. I thought Democrats were for the little guy? This reads like something cooked up by some rich bureaucrat on the hill! Oh, wait... confuse



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"The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has told automakers it doesnt need to allow access by anyone wireless access to vehicles in order to diagnose and repair certain problems."

First of all, it's not a correctly structured sentence with the word "access" used twice. And secondly, It just says wireless access isn't required, It doesn't say people can't plug in their own scan tool to the DLC... You know, like I have to at the dealership. Even the fancy dealership equipment I have access to doesn't "wirelessly" access anything, so I'm not sure exactly what the author of this article is talking about.



-- Edited by PowerStroker on Tuesday 27th of June 2023 09:07:19 PM

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PowerStroker said...
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

qt. "Even the fancy dealership equipment I have access to doesn't "wirelessly" access anything, so I'm not sure exactly what the author of this article is talking about".
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


At my short-stint at the BMW dealership, we'd plug-in a wireless interface into the cars computer, where it would then log-in locally to the companies system, & then onto the BMW main-frame in Germany...All the data of parts, build dates, prior service dates & troubles, plus other history was logged, & then it ran the official BMW scan...I guess it confirms that it's not a stolen vehicle, & is being officially taken care of at an OEM authorized repair center.

Perhaps this non-sense is where Ford intend to go too.

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The thing I plug into the DLC does communicate wirelessly to my laptop, but I still have to plug something into the DLC. We have an aftermarket tool at the dealership too that also functions much the same way. I can't access any car wirelessly without physically plugging something in first.


With regard to service information like module software downloads, OE scan tools, and workshop manuals... All of this is available for purchase at motorcraftservice.com for non dealership customers. It's not free, but there's no reason for it to be free. So I really don't know what the guy who wrote the article is bitching about. He's free to pay up and access the same things I do anytime he wants.

It looks like a nonsense article designed to get people worked up over nothing.



-- Edited by PowerStroker on Wednesday 28th of June 2023 10:28:12 AM

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PowerStroker, could you please show us a photo of a OBD-II port (DLC) on a Tesla? Or any 100% EV for that matter?



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I only work on Fords. Are you saying Tesla doesn't have a standard 16 pin diagnostic port? The Mustang Mach E does, and so does the new Lightning electric F150.



-- Edited by PowerStroker on Wednesday 28th of June 2023 02:00:52 PM

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From my understanding no Tesla has an OBD-II port...

I have not seen a Mach E or the new lightning truck in the flesh to say if they do or they don't... I am assuming you have? 



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Yes, and they still use the 16 pin Trapezoid obd2 port.

As far as Teslas go, my understanding is they do have and obd2 port that provides generic functionality, and they have a hidden proprietary connector for dealer level functions. Ford only uses the OBD2 port for everything (except sync updates which are done through the USB slot).

So I'm still left wondering what the article is actually about.

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The Tesla Model 3 and Model Y are not equipped with a standard OBD2 port. Instead, a console connector is available at the back seat of the vehicle, wherein you can plug-in an OBD2 tool or device using a Tesla OBD2 adapter. 

https://ohptools.com/blogs/news/all-you-need-to-know-about-the-tesla-model-3-y-diagnostic-tools-apps

Apparently the model 3 and Y vehicles don't have the standard OBD port, nor is it located in the required place under the dash per the code. A special adapter is required, which to me is the first step in trying to do away with such things on EV's to lock people out. If the only way you can communicate with the vehicle is via wire, and nobody gets access I think it's safe to say we are being locked out and a rights to repair being trampled!

Furthermore, the old OBD-II standard of 1996-up is way too outdated for the technoligy today that can see dozens of computers connected via CAN... To me access to every single computer, be it emissions, ABS, transmission, airbags, stereo, HVAC, fuel, tire pressure, or ANYTHING else connected to the system needs to be mandated that access is a standard protocol! This has NOTHING to do with buying your dealership manuals and EVERYTHING to do with keeping everything a uniform standard! 

I see us moving further away from the OBD-II principals than I see us moving closer to them! Many car companies (not just Fords) have more than just one computer now days... 6-12 computers is about the norm, with some having even MORE that that linked in a CAN.

I'm not saying Chiltons, Mitchells, AllData, Motor, and factory service publications should be free! NEVER said that! I'm saying the access needs to be there in a standardized protocol so that people other than the manufacture can service these vehicles! The reality is that the Dealerships couldn't even handle ALL the work out there! If they were allowed a monopoly on repairs and service we would never see a vehicle older than 72 months on the road!

This is not a partisan issue, and I am having trouble understanding why you can't see the writing on the wall? It's not a big ask! Make ALL this shit accessible! This is getting to be bullshit! 



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PowerStroker said...

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

qt. "So I'm still left wondering what the article is actually about".
____________________________________________________________________________________________________


It's likely an "official" guide to say that a new-car may have its official warranty made void if someone other than an OEM outlet touches it, within a warranty-period, & it can be proven.

And we must remember that Warranty-periods are extendable even after a 2nd-hand purchase of the vehicle. This also gives the new owner assurance that only OEM trained persons have had their paws on it. This keeps the money circulating within the OEM group of new & 2nd-hand vehicles & spares.

And even if market value of a vehicle falls, premium prices can still be asked for a confirmed OEM only serviced vehicle.

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Give me a flipping break Rastus!

Every car will be five years old in just five years! Between that point you have to buy parts from the dealership anyway, unless some parts carry over from previous models that are similar.

There is NO EXCUSE for this... NONE! 

The article just goes to express that if you give manufactures an inch, they will try and take a mile!

Ford's just got a $9.2 BILLION loan from the Government for their battery plant... biggest Government loan to an automotive manufacture in the history of ever!

Everybody knows letting one manufacture get away with something, however small -- will be copied by the rest! This big EV push is supposed to be about the environment, not blocking people from fixing their own vehicles.

I been buidling EV cars as TOYS when I was a kid, and that is ALL these "scale" electric cars are today! Give me a flipping break! Nobody in their right mind would suggest that a private mechanic should fix something that the manufacture aught to pay for! That's just crazy talk!



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All Ford dealer level service information, special tools, and diagnostic software is available for purchase right here: https://www.motorcraftservice.com/

My dealership had to pay for this stuff, and if you want it, so do you.



-- Edited by PowerStroker on Wednesday 28th of June 2023 10:30:57 PM

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PowerStroker wrote:

All Ford dealer level service information, special tools, and diagnostic software is available for purchase right here: https://www.motorcraftservice.com/

My dealership had to pay for this stuff, and if you want it, so do you.


 

PLEASE POWERSTROKER! Ford's can't even keep valve covers or other critical parts for their early to mid 2000's vehicles in stock and available for it's customers! Why the hell would I pay for their outdated crap when they cant even handle my after warranty parts needs?

Any manufacture that can't be bothered to maintain supply and avaliability for their past models does not deserve a frigging DIME for their information and special tools! 

FoMoCo loves to make parts for their older vehicles obsolete! Why? I'd say it's greed but in the case of Ford's it's just plain stupidity! 



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So by Biden "killing your right to repair" What you mean is he's not mandating the manufacturers give you everything for free?

And this is a change from the status quo how?

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It was a question, "is this administration bending over" to special interest? And will that Kill our right to repair?

Not everything PowerStroker... Just access! Most major appliances and such will include detailed exploded views with part numbers to service them! Since cars are a lot more complex than a major appliance this access must be granted for onboard diaganosis accross the CAN modules, and full access to parts diagrams and exploded views (with part numbers)... as a mechanic, I represent the owner when these needs arrise -- and Fords and every other manufacture out there should be REQUIRED to have this information available to me, and or the owner upon command! If a manufacture cannot maintain public access of it's products for repair beyond a warranty is it really a professional manufacture anyway? 

You seem to go on about repair manuals, and special tools (many of which no dealerships carry)... I'm talking about access! Information as basic as exploded diagrams with part numbers and full CAN module access! This is not unreasonable and this is NOT just limited to Fords! All car manufactures have an obligation to maintain this information and provide it on demand for the owner of said product, or his hired serviceman or woman!



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Dealerships pay monthly subscriptions for all of these things, including online parts catalog access. If it's not even free for a dealership that already paid millions for a franchise agreement, then it's not going to be free for you either. None of this is Biden's fault or even a new policy.

If you only need access occasionally, you can buy 72 hour access for $22.

https://www.motorcraftservice.com/Home/Pricing

 

When I needed OE schematics for my Honda CR-V I simply paid for a short term subscription. I never once thought such things should be free. It's the cost of doing business.



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Did you even read the entire article in it's entirety? Or did you just stop when you come across a grammatical error?

"Safety is cited as the reason for this shift in regulatory policy. This wasnt included in a law voted on by US Congress, but instead was just something Biden through NHTSA has mandated. And just like that, automakers can be free to not share access to unique tools and information necessary to fix newer cars."

Do you need the link again?



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Doesn't your BF run the NHTSA, PowerStroker? 

I'm just saying... the article is from a credible news desk and you're trying to say it's BS? 

I know a Union guy like you who works for the dealership don't think much of it with your occasional little subscriptions to AllData or whatever, but for the repair shop it's often included with your local parts suppliers online parts ordering system... AllData for AutoZone and Mitchells for Oreilly... Just so you know!

But that has nothing to do with the fact that this will be abused and President Biden and your BF at the NHTSA need to take steps to prevent that for the hard working Americans who make a living fixing things outside of warranty... Nobody is saying that new car warranties shouldn't be dealer preferred, but in some cases (rare) there is a need. 

I'm not going to get into the DPS6 transmission, and I'm not going to bring up the Ford Pinto... I think we can both agree that dead horse has been beat long enough! I'm just saying $9.6 BILLION DOLLARS PowerStroker! Better get your battery lift/cart ready! They be coming!



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LOL !

It's also probably got to do with electric-vehicles, & whether a person is accredited / certified to work on such pieces-of-shyte...

The world is changing pretty quickly now-days, & I wouldn't fuss about all this stuff.

All the silly Mofo's have to do is let the free-energy devices out, so that a regular car can run on water.

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I did read the article, and his link was for a story about providing law enforcement with GPS tracking location data on a Volkswagen, and NOTHING to do with repairing a vehicle. Which is why I'm confused about how the author is associating it with right to repair. Especially since even dealerships can't even access location data, or crash data for that matter.

Most dealerships are hiring. If you want access to OE service information and equipment at no cost to you, the door is wide open. Whatever Biden's executive order was (if one exists) is probably perfectly reasonable and within the confines of the law. If Congress wants to overrule it, they have a process for doing so. Call your Michigan Congressman and tell him you want Congress to force auto makers to provide you unlimited free intellectual property so that you can profit from it, see how that goes over. My guess is it will go over like a fart in church, no matter which party he belongs to. 

The proper business practice for someone like you, would be to charge a $25 service information access fee to any of your customers that require you to purchase a short term subscription for OE information to fix their car. Then there is no intellectual property theft, and you aren't losing any money.

Right to repair is about making things available to the public, not necessarily making them free. You still have to pay to play, and this was true long before Biden took over.

The author of the article didn't link to any supporting info about Biden's executive order, just some news story about a stolen Volkswagen tracking incident and somehow tied that to right to repair for no other purpose than to get certain people riled up. Unless and until you or the author can tell me specifically how Biden wronged you here, I'm calling bullshit. The author's strategy is one of a propagandist, not a journalist. There are many similarities with how Fox and RT present "news" too.

I expected better from you than to be so easily manipulated.

 



-- Edited by PowerStroker on Thursday 29th of June 2023 02:09:54 PM

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I am not being manipulated... clearly you're being political!

You work for a union that supplies workers for a Ford Dealership... you could CARE LESS about anyone/anything outside of them parameters... 

The article indicates that the change is at the NHTSA level... I wished there was more detailed links to the exact language -- but for me this is important! My livelihood depends on it, so I'm not so quick to dismiss it like a Union guy working for a Ford Dealership would... remember PowerStroker, I don't just work on Fords!

I'll keep my eyes and ears to the ground if I see anything else pop up about this.



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PowerStroker said...

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Call your Michigan Congressman and tell him you want Congress to force auto makers to provide you unlimited free intellectual property so that you can profit from it...
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Yo, much-much better to sign the petition to stop the reopening of the closed Palisades Nuke-plant...



Stellar said...
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My livelihood depends on it, so I'm not so quick to dismiss it like a Union guy working for a Ford Dealership would... Remember PowerStroker, I don't just work on Fords!
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You're likely to be retired before all these vehicles come-to-the-door, if you both make-it that-far-down-the-road lol ! And PowerStroker did offer you a job-opportunity to investigate...

Sign the Palisades petition if you haven't already, as you'll be helping save countless lives, including your own !



-- Edited by Rastus on Thursday 29th of June 2023 06:49:26 PM

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I'm already getting Hybrids in... won't be long until the electrics are here! 

You seem to forget, I'm tide to this company until in my 70's -- if I make it that long! That's almost 22 years from now! I'll for sure be seeing these cars in about 5-10 years from now... maybe sooner!

I'm quite happy with my opportunities as an independent and PowerStrokers offerings were unsolicited! 



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SELLC wrote:

1. I'm already getting Hybrids in... won't be long until the electrics are here! 

2. (a) You seem to forget, I'm tide to this company until in my 70's -- if I make it that long ! (b) That's almost 22 years from now ! (c) I'll for sure be seeing these cars in about 5-10 years from now... maybe sooner !

3. I'm quite happy with my opportunities as an independent and PowerStrokers offerings were unsolicited ! 


 

R1. Bummer...

R2. (a&b) You may make it Stellar...Should you survive your first major heart-attack, you'll get your act together quick-smart...(c) I tend to think that since the electric-cars are a scam, they'll come & go quicker than smart-phones do...This means you won't have to repair them, since they'll be scrapped before they get to you.

* Should the "free-energy" devices be made available, you'll be able to drive a regular car around on water...Or if you still like the electric option, recharge for free...In fact, there's a prototype running around that only needs 1-charge-up for life, since it has 4 x generators attached within each wheel-hub keeping the battery full, & running the car once going.

R3. PowerStroker's suggestion allows you to keep working & earning a regular income...Good advice for those who may need some.



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Pfft...

Screw the dealership! I'm thinking of getting a part time job at the Palisades Nuke plant! Pay is WAY better!



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SELLC wrote:

Pfft...

Screw the dealership! I'm thinking of getting a part time job at the Palisades Nuke plant! Pay is WAY better!


 

LOL !

Palisades will give you much more for free than just a pay-check...And if / when things-turn-to-shyte, you won't need one-of-Musk's Space-X rockets to go flying through space yo...



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I'm still pissed off that PowerStroker wants to make my Snap-On MT2500 scanner obsolete with his new NHTSA laws!



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Your Snap-On MT2500 has been obsolete for about 20 years. Not because of Biden or the NHTSA, but because the auto makers have gone nuts with multiplexing.

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Not really PowerStroker! The MT2500 has a "global" mode that still allows you to scan even newer models with the CAN adapter and existing key (usually K20)... Just scanned a 2018 the other day with no problems!

Do you know why that is PowerStroker? Because of the OBD-II laws that require a unified protocol to access emissions related data, which is pretty much the entire engine side of the network of modules.

I'm not so sure multiplexing is the proper term either, it's called a CAN (Controller Area Network) but I know how you guys at Fords are about your terms... you guys like to feel special.

Anyway, the bottom line is that many other systems (modules) can contribute to excessive emissions -- and I think the regulations regarding access needs some serious upgrading to keep up with the tech! 



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Oh, I'm sure it will read generic engine codes even to this day in "global" mode, but it won't talk to most non powertrain related modules on a modern car. Nor is it able to perform many dynamic tests or take active command of many things. I'll bet running a dynamic evaporative emissions leak test with that thing is probably out of the question.

If you have the adapters, those were pretty good at the OBD1 stuff. My high school shop had one of those back in the 90's when cars and life was much more simple. Many things that came after that have long been obsolete too. Might be time to upgrade? Keep it for vintage cars and OBD1 domestic stuff but even if you get a cheapo from Launch you'd be way better prepared for the modern stuff.

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And that is what I am saying PowerStroker! A unified protocol across the Controler Area Network to allow unfettered access to at least the live data relevent to ALL sensors active in the vehicle... The same goes for commands and other operations limited only by emissions and actual theft of vehicle security. The technology has gotten the best of the old unified OBD-II standard of 1996! There needs to be an OBD-III for ALL the manufactures that force even Electric Vehicle manufactures like Tesla to allow standard access to ALL on-board operations with a globalized and unified protocol! This has nothing to do with selling manuals, or parts! It has everything to do with access! There is NO REASON that any manufacture should be allowed to block access to this vital information! NONE! It would be like a hospital denying to send your records to another Doctor because they opperated in another network! It's un-thinkable! It only serves to prevent the owner from getting a 2nd opinion... No WAY!

With regards to the reliable old MT2500... I have ALL the OBD-I connectors for all the manufactures, along with their books and all the troubleshooting manuals. I have all the carterages up to 2008 going back as far as they offered diagnostic ports on vehicles. I also have a few of the bricks as well. I have access to newer hardware that is good until something like 2018, and it does access most all the modules (solus) and allows for a hodge podge of commands -- or most of your regular ones anyway. That doesn't change the fact that you still need a seperate computer for the TPMS systems, which is total BS because that is a SERIOUS safty issue they are locking people out of that is important, and should not be used in this way to scalp the customer or independent. The same goes with programing keys -- which should also be part of the scanner because lets be honest, if you have a cut key and a transponder, it should be the MECHANIC who has the ability to program them! I'm sure locksmiths would go so far as to say they should have access too, and I guess that is far providing they are certified and registered as a mechanic in Michigan under the "electrical" classification! Because then, they would be a MECHANIC... albeit a "specialty" one.

I do have my eyes on a few modern scanners... You should also know that as usual, and just like I said last year -- SnapOn is coming out with a NEW platform for their scan tools... I been watching the details about it and I'll be sure to upgrade the thread in the tool crib once I have more hands on use of the device, but even still there will be a ton of gotcha's like their always is -- and always some exotic foreign manufacture skirting the rules and requiring some new plug to gain access... it makes me sick! If I can avoid giving these cocksuckers who try and lock people out of their own cars, you can bet your ass I'll find a way around it --- and if I don't, the aftermarket will! What is going on at this level is they are trying to prevent EVERYONE from having access by saying these systems are only wirelessly serviceable... and access to said wireless system is a security risk! That is total bullshit! OBD-III needs to come down on manufatures like a ton of bricks this time -- looking WAY into the future to ensure the next two or three decades cant see the new global access circumvented like we have seen with OBD-II!

I would have bitched regardless what President or NHTSA secretary was being blamed, when it comes to automotive legislation my eyes are like

Strike First - Strike Fast - No Mercy!



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Part of the problem now is that there is way too much information to share across 1 CAN network. A modern Ford for example will have 3 separate High speed Can Networks, a FDCAN (super high speed), 2 medium speed CAN networks, an Ethernet network, and a few LIN networks. With the exception of the LIN's which can't be accessed with any scan tool, the others are still accessed through the 16 pin "OBD 2" style port. How is it possible to access that many networks when there aren't even that many pins in the DLC? Well, it used to be that Ford used the Instrument Cluster and Sync Modules as gateways that allow data sharing between different networks. That way if you needed to access codes or datastream from a network that wasn't wired into the DLC, the requested data would be routed through one of those 2 modules that were. Now things have gotten more complicated... The Data link connector is now its own computer where all of the networks (except LIN's) go into it, and the 16 pin DLC is a part of it the actual gateway module. The newest versions of said gateway module even allow for over the air software updates directly from Ford, and manage the download and updates of the modules feeding into it.



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Yes, it is quite amazing the level of technology in these newer vehicles. But of course we have said this since the 1980's as newer and newer technologies have been introduced, some good and others not so good.

I have not yet come across a FDCAN, and I'd imagine you'll need an adapter much like the CAN adapter for the MT2500 to slow down the signal so the older units can handle it... of course, I'm not suggesting that the MT2500 will be able to handle the FDCAN, but rather some more recent scan tools might need the adapter if they want to get into them systems... Seems to me the LIN networks are the old-school legacy daisy chain network style we used back in Windows 3.1 or 98... it's slow but only has one wire which cuts down on harness wires.

You lay out the newer systems quite well PowerStroker, I'm sure there is a way to get a standard together for OBD-III and I'm almost curious if we will see an OBD-III implementation anytime soon. 



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Back in the old days (1980's) you would have break-out-boxes to check live data in the form of voltages or resistances. 

I'm thinking the OBD-III would obviously be a big part of this new DLC computer... I swear they have a module for everything now days and it's only going to get worse with self drive technologies and the likes. 

I was reading that some of your ultra-high end cars today are packing over 70 modules! That's a whole lot of chips!



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Stellar said...

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qt. " I was reading that some of your ultra-high end cars today are packing over 70 modules ! That's a whole lot of chips !
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What it is, is a whole lot of unnecessary electrical crap, that can, & does break at times...And as market value depreciates on these cars, the cost of the failed electrical component will warrant the vehicle unrepairable...So, what happens is...

* Unlikely, but if an OEM 2nd-hand dealer thinks the car is sellable on his lot, he'll source the part, usually with a 70% discount attached with it.

* The auto-recyclers will make 1 car out-of-two, & hope that the needed module doesn't fail within the short warranty period.

* Someone with a big back-yard, who doesn't mind junk everywhere, will have a back-up car for parts.

Depreciation, high OEM service fees, & high cost of electrical parts are built-in to new cars so that they'll only be around for 10-years or so, before people don't care about them...

And if the electrical item doesn't fail, it's very likely that the heater-control-valave assy, or heater-through-firewall plastic connectors will, & that means blown cyl-head-gaskets or worse.

Lot's of things in there that will break, & the costs of repair will encourage you to sell & move-on to a newer vehicle.



-- Edited by Rastus on Sunday 2nd of July 2023 07:06:13 PM

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Rastus wrote:


* Someone with a big back-yard, who doesn't mind junk everywhere, will have a back-up car for parts.



 

confuse

Are there any names that come to mind Rastus? I let out an audible gasp when I read that.

Anyway, I have one here now with a cracked heater hose fitting... what used to be a 5/8 hose and a few 5/8 hose clamps is now some fancy 90 degree plastic connector that splits off into three for the rear heater supply line... and of course it's well under the firewall, with compression tabs to release them... fun-fun... almost as fun as that Cadillac SRX I did the other day that required the door removal to replace the door wireharness after the wires started splitting from 128k worth of door openings and closings.

I don't mind it so much, because a lot of people know a few grand spent with me is much better than $60-$100 grand they would spend on a new one that will only be MORE expensive to fix in 10 years, if at all because they no longer sell the part at the dealership or in the aftermarket.



-- Edited by SELLC on Sunday 2nd of July 2023 09:23:06 PM

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Back to the original topic. I've done a little research and while Ford is (for now) keeping with the OBD2 style connector in everything, several EV manufacturers aren't, and it's not because of Biden, it's because the requirement to have an OBD2 style connector is based on a regulation to standardize the diagnostics of emissions control systems. Whereas EV's are zero emission vehicles, they are by definition exempt from the existing regulation. This is how Tesla gets away with it, they have never produced anything but zero emission vehicles so they can come up with their own proprietary everything.

If Congress wants to extend the generic OBD2 standards to all cars regardless of emissions status, I'd support that, I imagen Biden might too, but Congress would have to start this process.

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PowerStroker wrote:

Back to the original topic. I've done a little research and while Ford is (for now) keeping with the OBD2 style connector in everything, several EV manufacturers aren't, and it's not because of Biden, it's because the requirement to have an OBD2 style connector is based on a regulation to standardize the diagnostics of emissions control systems. Whereas EV's are zero emission vehicles, they are by definition exempt from the existing regulation. This is how Tesla gets away with it, they have never produced anything but zero emission vehicles so they can come up with their own proprietary everything.

If Congress wants to extend the generic OBD2 standards to all cars regardless of emissions status, I'd support that, I imagen Biden might too, but Congress would have to start this process.


 

This is exactly what I have been saying all along!



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But you instinctively blamed Biden, which was inaccurate.

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No PowerStroker! That was just the title of the article that I found on the internet!

This thread title is phrased as a question, although I notice the question mark is missing... it's really the ONLY article that addresses this issue right now, besides this one!



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LOL !

Stellar, I am the least bit offended by anyone & / or what the state of their back-yard maybe. I hope you're not....

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Washinglee OBD2 Diagnostic Cable for Tesla Model X and Model S Since Sep 2015, 20 Pin OBDII Adapter Harness. 30 cm

Amazon has lots of Tesla diagnostic options, and they are cheap.

The author of the article should do some basic research before bloviating his anti-Biden propaganda. 



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The author of the article has done way more research than you PowerStroker... anyone who actually read the article (clearly not Rastus because it's not about aliens or some secret society) knows that you were told Tesla's don't have OBD-II ports from the jump... furthermore -- as per the OBD-II standard such diagnostic "options" are not permitted under the OBD-II laws for "motor vehicles"...

Tesla flouted the OBD-II standard, because they feel -- much like you, that you're special. This is not the case, but it makes for great entertainment.

Clearly you were suffering from sundowners when you wrote this, because it's not propaganda! 



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Stellar....

These cars won't make it to your work-shop imo...They're junk, & will depreciate quicker than your i-phone does.

Once the cost of a replacement battery out-values the market-value of the car, it's off to the scrap-heap, or to some panel-beaters back-yard for body-parts.

Can't you see that Elon is scamming the whole world with his bullshyte ??? He's now invested in AI LOL !

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The author thinks vehicle location data (which dealerships don't even have access to) is related to automotive repair. And that somehow Biden changed the existing rules. Neither are true.

BTW, the cheap ass adapter I showed you in the above photo available from Amazon will allow you to hook up your antique tool to a Tesla. Perhaps in "global mode" you can even pull a code from one with it. If a $20 adapter is too much of an investment for you, you're in the wrong business. Tesla had their proprietary connector during the Trump administration too, Biden didn't change shit.

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Well maybe you should write a letter to the author? I simpily asked the question, and your answer is duly noted!

I'm not saying it's Biden's fault, no more than it was Trump or Obama's fault when the Tesla was introduced and picked up steam! I'm just saying maybe someone should look into that?

You know damn well it's not the $20 for the connector that I am worried about -- rather this idea that car manufactures can move away from allowing a unified protocol for access to live data WHILE THE CAR IS PRESENT AND IN FOR SERVICE. 

The point you make regarding live wireless access is fair enough, however the manufactures do monitor LIVE DATA... Tesla was one of the first to do this! Live updates and such for the self-drive and such. 

It's VERY important the aftermarket has GOOD access to these systems for when they do reach the aftermarket -- AND THEY WILL! Unlike what Rastus suggest about them being "throw-away" I'd seriously doubt that! They still have suspension, axles, lights, windows, wheels, brakes and powertrains that go bad and will need fixing at a rate that a dealership cannot keep up with... already word on the street is GM is doing a lot of Tesla warranty work -- although unofficialy. But a lot of these new electric cars arent even 10 years old yet, but I am already getting Hybird vehicles in for service now... and they have 300,000+ miles on them and still going. Even when the battery goes out, there will be a demand and someone will come along and offer an aftermarket alternative that is reasonably priced -- much like how expensive ANY part is on a vehicle less than five years old. The aftermarket don't even really dig in until the 5th year and it's usually almost 7 years old before anything is identified as a problem and in demand enough to even bother making. 

I'm not sure where Rastus gets this idea that people are going to throw away cars, but outside of an electric car style cash for clunkers over 10 years old, people are going to fix them. 

We need access to ALL THIS STUFF because its VERY important that I can find a bad sensor, or a bad battery cell -- or anything else that has to do with a CAN network of computers! I'm not suggesting LIVE data, just a unified protocol for the aftermarket to work with in the interest of our "Rights to repair!" while the vehicle is in for service! This applies to dealerships too, who often take in other brands on trade to re-sell on their own lots! It's just common sense for the times we are in!

If it as PowerStroker suggest, that "it ain't his fault"... well, why not take up the matter and get something moving in that direction? It might not be his fault (because the author failed to give a link) but I can tell you even without that link -- I have seen what the industry is trying to do here and it's NOT moving towards a responsible, let alone UNIFIED direction. The direction I see it going is car manufactures making every aspect of your vehicle a subscription, from your windows to your HVAC, to your stereo --- EVERYTHING... They plan on doing this remotely -- over that LIVE private manufacture network you don't seem to think is a big deal... 

I think it's a serious problem! I think it's more serious than you realize! In fact, I think it could have huge implications on your job if Fords could just use AI on their networks to automate every single process of a warranty job - schedual it - test and identify the problem wirelessly and fire people like you and the service writers who didn't even see it coming! Sure, you could get a job working for an independent and fighting the good fight -- but you could just as easily say "You know, regardless who's fault this is the buck needs to stop at Biden's desk because we know if Trump gets in there he isn't going to give a sh!t!" right now and save yourself the embarrassment. 

IIRC, the UAW (Ford and GM) are in negotiations right now... they could be striking next!



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And yes, PowerStroker, I know you're a Teamster -- and not UAW....

But this would have a trickle down factor, even for your dealership. How long you guys got on your contract?



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I mean, who knows... maybe if the sh!t get's harry with GM and Fords and they strike and need Ferderal help it could be rolled into that... Fords just got shy of $10 billion to make a new battery plant.

There is lots of oppertunity here for a win! 



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This is a good read for anyone into fixing cars! 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On-board_diagnostics

Clearly everyone else in the world is trying to catch up... but already OBD-II is way behind the times and being ignorned all together by some manufactures of EVs!



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