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Post Info TOPIC: 1989 F-250 4X4 loose steering


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RE: 1989 F-250 4X4 loose steering


How much longer are we going to



It's not adjustable... It's replaceable.

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This thread ought to be a reminder to anyone else who dares asking a question in here looking for a clear cut answer!

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This horse isn't dead... this horse is a little boy that changes brakes in parking lots and has more stories than the Empire State Building... You are a piece of work, Rex... You are the poster boy for what is wrong with this trade.

-- Edited by PogoPossum on Saturday 3rd of April 2010 11:33:51 PM

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SELLC wrote:

This thread ought to be a reminder to anyone else who dares asking a question in here looking for a clear cut answer!




 Because the one thing that Rex can't give you is a clear cut answer....

What's your point, anyway? We have a better idea of the things you don't know than you do...



-- Edited by PogoPossum on Saturday 3rd of April 2010 11:36:34 PM

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REX..................... DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU GOT OWNED!????????????????????????

AHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Bottom line...

If PowerStroker OR Pogo were in a building with nothing more than tools and an alignement rack the only adjustments they could make would be TOE. Without access to aftermarket or factory cams this truck would be NON-ADJUSTABLE for the Caster.

As stated before... ANY CAR OR TRUCK "CAN" BE ADJUSTED BY PURCHASING AFTERMARKET PARTS.... That is why I posted photos of the aftermarket kit to allow caster/camber adjustments on the Ford Mustang. It proves that YES even vehicles that are NON-ADJUSTABLE from the factory can be MODIFIED to allow adjustments.

So... The bottom line is that they ARE NOT ADJUSTABLE from the factory, just as I have stated.

The only people that keep getting owned in here are the people trying to say otherwise.

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FAR BEYOND DRIVEN

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SELLC wrote:

Bottom line...

If PowerStroker OR Pogo were in a building with nothing more than tools and an alignement rack the only adjustments they could make would be TOE. Without access to aftermarket or factory cams this truck would be NON-ADJUSTABLE for the Caster.


PowerStroker and Pogo wouldn't sell an alignment job to someone if they didn't have everything they needed to do it right.

That's the difference between you and us. 



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That must be why Ford had so many buy backs when the 6.0 rolled out in 2003 huh?

LOL

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No, thats why they sent them to me to be fixed instead of sending them to you.

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"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."     Lyndon B. Johnson



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No they sent them to you because you work for change...

See when I look up labor times I dont have to use the "Warranty" time.

Not to mention I know you arent pulling down $75 an hour.

I think the reason they BOUGHT them back, then sent them to you was because (a) You work for reduced labor times (b) You work for less money per hour and (c) after the buy back its rotors could rust away in the RAV lot for as long as it took you to figure it out.

Put that in your Kool-Aid and drink it.

-- Edited by SELLC on Monday 5th of April 2010 11:01:04 PM

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The rotors were rusting away in dealership lots across the five state area BEFORE they were shipped to me. Some sat almost a year before they shipped them my way. Once I fixed them (and frequently resurfaced rotors) they usually only sat around a week or so before the auction guys came to pick them up. I fixed many, many 6.0 buy back trucks a few years ago, but those days are over.

You are right about one thing though. It is much more cost effective for Ford to have me fix them instead of you, even though they paid my dealer $100 per hour to have me do so (though I admit only a fraction of that went to me). You see, I didn't need to through $12,000 worth of experimental repairs at each one. I diagnosed and repaired only what they needed, thus saving Ford money.

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"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."     Lyndon B. Johnson



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Hey I told you a lot of that was storage and parts. I can't help it you guys at the dealership never lifted a finger to properly service that 6.0PS thru it's warranty life!

You dont have to take is so personal PowerStroker, I am just pulling your chain. Maybe if you got a lap dance every once in awhile you wouldnt be so on edge.

Besides.... You boys are ready for the "All New" 6.7 this time arent ya? Arent they due to be breaking down any day now? After all Fix Or Repair Daily wasnt just a joke.

Maybe you guys should get Kelly Bundy to introduce the new 6.7 Scorpion motor, she did a great job with the Cadillac Alante.




-- Edited by SELLC on Tuesday 6th of April 2010 05:00:54 PM

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It's been over 6 years since I started this post, and in my recent searching on the topic, it brought me back here.

In the 6 years since, I've replaced much on this truck, or had components rebuilt...including the following:

Replaced 5.0 engine with one from donor truck
Had M5OD transmission replaced with rebuilt unit due to cracked bellhousing
Had read drive shaft rebuilt due to it being bent...which vibrated a crack in the bellhousing
Added Bronco tank to replace rusted rear fuel tank
Replaced aluminum wheels with steel rims
Replaced radiator
Rebuilt alternator
Replaced waterpump and fan clutch
Replaced seals in both differentials
New bearings in rear axle


What's left to do?

Rebuild front drive shaft
Repair bed wheel arch rot with replacement panels
Replace driver's side door due to rust from lower mirror mount
Replace door windows...Utah sand stuck in the dew wipes screwed them up
Clean up steel wheels, repaint, and replace lug nuts with shiney chrome ones
Driveway paint job.

This $600 truck has now cost me $3000 in parts and mostly my own labor. I've learned much through the journey, and have taught my son how to save money by doing as much work as possible on his own.


However, the one thing I have not been able to do, which was the cause of this thread in the beginning...How in the hell can I lessen the amount of float felt int he steering at speeds below 35 mph? Is it even possible?? Did Ford do this to me to drive me nuts???



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1989 Ford F-250 302 4X4
1987 Mercedes-Benz 560sl
1986 Mercury Cougar
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LOL,

I haven't read through the whole thread, but...

1. The power-steering pump starts to by-pass excess-pressurized fluid at a certain RPM, & is usually pre-set by spring pressure at a pressure-relief-valve. I'd see if there's a lighter spring available to install.

2. See if a smaller diameter pulley is available for the pump, as it will then start by-passing at lower engine-RPM / road-speed - ( the P/S-pump will spin faster for the same road speed, so it should by-pass earlier). This will be the cheapest & easiest fix if possible.

Cheers,

Rastus



-- Edited by Rastus on Wednesday 19th of October 2016 06:36:19 PM

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What you're saying makes sense, but you're the first person I've seen anywhere to suggest it.

Potential problems to this would be 1) Making up the difference in diameter on another pulley to keep belt length the same. 2) Faster pump speed heats fluid 3) Cavitation issues caused from increased pump speed.

To over come this, I would have to see which pulley I can alter, add a P/S cooler and possibly add a remote res with gravity feed to keep the pump flowing with fluid.

Interesting concept, and one used in true off roaders, but I don't think I can make it work in my application without redesigning the system.

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1987 Mercedes-Benz 560sl
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Did you use the pump off the truck originally or the pump that came with the used engine? They may have had different pumps with different valve spring rates as Rastus was saying. 

If you have checked everything else, check the frame for cracks or separations, seen this before and there is a thread in here about it. Check the rag joints on the steering shaft to the gearbox, and then of course, ensure all the suspension is tight, but it sounds like you already got that handled.

The fact the problem only happens under 35 could indicate pressure differences, but would only be caused by an improper pump and or configuration. 

IIRC all the early 90's and late 80's F Series trucks drove pretty darn good when they were all tight up front with good tires and a balance. They weren't W126 tight, but still pretty good, so it has to be something! I am glad to hear you and your son are making progress on the truck and the most important part is he is learning more than what a lot of kids in his generation will know about cars! That's the best part!

I will say this however, and it probably has nothing to do with what you're dealing with now however it concerns most all E and F Series on up thru until 2008. There is a problem with the front brake caliper hoses where the metal bracket will rust and cause the line to pinch. The result will be a hung caliper, warped rotor, dragging and otherwise pulsations. The repair is as simple as removing the metal bracket or replacing the line. I think I must have done 10 of these this year! So if you run into that problem, at least now you got a heads up! Thinking about making a thread about it but in the last 10 repairs I didn't take any photos. I'll have to put it on my bucket list!



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IN THE RUNNING

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jplinville wrote:

What you're saying makes sense, but you're the first person I've seen anywhere to suggest it.

Potential problems to this would be 1) Making up the difference in diameter on another pulley to keep belt length the same. 2) Faster pump speed heats fluid 3) Cavitation issues caused from increased pump speed.

To over come this, I would have to see which pulley I can alter, add a P/S cooler and possibly add a remote res with gravity feed to keep the pump flowing with fluid.

Interesting concept, and one used in true off roaders, but I don't think I can make it work in my application without redesigning the system.


 Hello,

I should first say that I don't know what system you have, or how it's designed, but most modern systems are designed to only deliver power-assistance at idle speeds anyway, so once you're up & moving, your steering is only assisted by the fact that the wheels are turning. You only need power-assistance when parking. Plus there's a check-valve that follows the motion of your turning effort, & initiates re-circulation once you stop moving the wheel, other wise the hydraulic pressure would keep moving the wheel for you automatically !

This means your pump is recirculating your fluid anyhow. Cavitation etc won't be of concern with a smaller diameter pulley. ( Maybe at sustained 6,000-rpm operation lol ).

Reducing your tyre pressures may help too...See what the std rating is meant to be & adjust accordingly. And make sure that the correct size tyres are fitted also. These make a dramatic difference to road feel & turning, with or without power-assistance.

Cheers,

 

Rastus



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SELLC wrote:

Did you use the pump off the truck originally or the pump that came with the used engine? They may have had different pumps with different valve spring rates as Rastus was saying. 

If you have checked everything else, check the frame for cracks or separations, seen this before and there is a thread in here about it. Check the rag joints on the steering shaft to the gearbox, and then of course, ensure all the suspension is tight, but it sounds like you already got that handled.

The fact the problem only happens under 35 could indicate pressure differences, but would only be caused by an improper pump and or configuration. 

IIRC all the early 90's and late 80's F Series trucks drove pretty darn good when they were all tight up front with good tires and a balance. They weren't W126 tight, but still pretty good, so it has to be something! I am glad to hear you and your son are making progress on the truck and the most important part is he is learning more than what a lot of kids in his generation will know about cars! That's the best part!

I will say this however, and it probably has nothing to do with what you're dealing with now however it concerns most all E and F Series on up thru until 2008. There is a problem with the front brake caliper hoses where the metal bracket will rust and cause the line to pinch. The result will be a hung caliper, warped rotor, dragging and otherwise pulsations. The repair is as simple as removing the metal bracket or replacing the line. I think I must have done 10 of these this year! So if you run into that problem, at least now you got a heads up! Thinking about making a thread about it but in the last 10 repairs I didn't take any photos. I'll have to put it on my bucket list!


 I used the one that I had on the original engine...it's a Saginaw that I had replaced.  I swapped out the original long ago.  However, it didn't change the way it steered, just got rid of the whine.  I swapped all the parts I had put on the old engine over to the replacement, or boxed them for future use...alternator, pulleys, PS pump, A/C pump, belt, etc.  Heck, I even pulled and kept everything mounted to the intake.  Better to be prepared and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

Frame is good, as is everything else.  Maybe it's just me...I enjoy the tighter steering on my other vehicles, then get in this or my other F250, and both feel the same.  I wish I could isolate it, but the more I think about it, the more I think it's inherent to the design of the suspension, much the way the front tires are at odd angles when you back into a parking spot. (\ - /)...slight exaggeration, but you know what I'm saying.

As for the brake line issue...thanks for the heads up.  I replaced all the lines earlier this year when the line burst right under the driver's seat.  I was at the hardware store, getting ready to drive home, hit the brakes before turning the key, and the pedal dropped all the way to the floor.  I replaced all lines, from master cylinder to caliper and wheel cylinders, with SS lines, or braided where applicable.  I dare the damned lines to give me issues again.  LOL  It was a pretty penny to do it that way, but well worth it in peace of mind.  It also gave me the ability to teach my son how the system works, and how to bend lines properly.

If I were to do a write up for each repair or upgrade I've done to this truck, I'd have a subforum all to myself.  



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1987 Mercedes-Benz 560sl
1986 Mercury Cougar
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2016 Jeep Compass



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BTW...Here's a picture of the beast as she looked prior to the rear tank install. Everything else is as it was in the photo. She's not a prom queen tease...she's the girl that puts out at the end of the date.

upload img



-- Edited by jplinville on Saturday 22nd of October 2016 06:03:40 PM

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...








-- Edited by jplinville on Saturday 22nd of October 2016 06:09:36 PM

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1987 Mercedes-Benz 560sl
1986 Mercury Cougar
1988 Ford F-250 460
2016 Jeep Compass



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jplinville wrote:

BTW...Here's a picture of the beast as she looked prior to the rear tank install. Everything else is as it was in the photo. She's not a prom queen tease...she's the girl that puts out at the end of the date.

upload img



-- Edited by jplinville on Saturday 22nd of October 2016 06:03:40 PM


 

You see a picture is worth a 1000's words! I bet you them tires are the reason it feels the way it does. I think these trucks had pretty narrow LT rated tires, are those LT rated tires? Look to see what the factory specs are for the tires but I bet them tires are a bit more beefy than what it came with from the factory. Big fat mud tires dramatically change the handling and ride of a truck. 

Overall it looks like she's part of the family, so it don't matter what it looks like so long as it's been loyal. Clearly she pulls at least her own weight! LOL



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I wouldn't think that 1.1" diameter and 1.25" in width bigger would do much. It didn't change the feel of it when I bumped up in size. There are LT275/70R16, and stock were LT235/85R16. These are LT tires, for certain.

Oh, well. I have no intention on going down in size any. Oh, and she pulls more than her own weight. There was over a ton in the bed, and pulling a 1992 Lincoln MKVII when I left Utah. It blew a rear main seal midway, and used about 2.5 gallons of oil on the second leg of the trip...but she made it. LOL

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1986 Mercury Cougar
1988 Ford F-250 460
2016 Jeep Compass



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Hello,

Tyres & their pressures make a surprising difference believe it or not...

I'd pull off your oil-filler-cap, & start the motor-up. If you can feel slugs of air pushing-up against your hand, your motor may be past its best...However, this also leads to a solution that will no doubt fix your steering issue, by placing at least another 250-pounds over the front axles...

Why not throw in an EFI 460 V-8 ?...

Ciao,

Rastus



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Rastus wrote:

Hello,

Tyres & their pressures make a surprising difference believe it or not...

I'd pull off your oil-filler-cap, & start the motor-up. If you can feel slugs of air pushing-up against your hand, your motor may be past its best...However, this also leads to a solution that will no doubt fix your steering issue, by placing at least another 250-pounds over the front axles...

Why not throw in an EFI 460 V-8 ?...

Ciao,

Rastus


 The engine that's currently installed is in great shape.  After the big move from Utah to Pennsylvania (1800 miles) I replaced the engine with one that was known to have roughly 30,000 miles...barely broken in.  It is a Jasper remanufactured engine that was removed from a junker that I paid $350 for.  Previous owner even gave me all the paperwork from the engine purchase and install.  I haven't put but 3,000 miles on it over the last 5 years, since it's mainly used to haul from time to time.  Otherwise, it's sitting while in the middle of another project.  The engine has many, many more miles to go before needing replaced again.  

Nah...this engine is good for a number of years of service.

I know it's not pretty to the eye, but the condition of the frame and cab are great, and without rust.  The primer on this era truck was junk, and the paint comes up in sheets.  As it flakes away, I sand it and hit it with rattlecan primer.  It will eventually have the bed wheel arch rust cut out and a repair panel installed.  After that, it will be rolled or sprayed with bed liner on the bottom, with either grey or black in either matte or flat on the top half...I'm still up in the air on that.  I need to get the wheels scrubbed and prepped for a rattlecan spray.  I already have replacement chrome lug nuts and SS hub cans for it...and that's as fancy as I'll get with them.  The truck cap won't get paint, or much else done to it other than a hillbilly hinge job to the rear glass...since it's only on part of the year.  I'm actually looking for a used aluminum topper with ladder rack...they're lighter than the one on there now, and I think they look better on this era truck.

Total investment is now in the $3,000 range, counting purchase.  With this engine, I'm way ahead of the game.

 



-- Edited by jplinville on Wednesday 26th of October 2016 06:44:07 AM

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1987 Mercedes-Benz 560sl
1986 Mercury Cougar
1988 Ford F-250 460
2016 Jeep Compass



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$3000 isn't bad for 5 years, and clearly you don't live in the rust belt or that truck would not have any of the bed left in tact.

I think I'm going to treat the Benz to a paint job, only because here in the rust belt that stuff is a serious problem once it sets in.

Hope it last forever! If it does a job that needs to be done thats all that matters. Some of these newer trucks are running $80-$100k! That's insane! Try finding a Raptor for under $40k USED! Not happening! 



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It's been awhile, but I'm done with the mechanical items...all of them except the shocks, which will come next month. Im going to use OEM quality Gabriel shocks from the 'Zone, because I've downsized the tires to the stock LT235/85R16. I made the drop in tire size due to fuel use and prices. I was only getting 8MPG, and am now back to up the range of the advertised 11/14.

I have the panels for the bed sides in the garage, along with a pair ofcab corners. Im on the hunt for a pair of solid doors, and hope to have a pair of them soon. I've got around $1500 max as my budget for the body and paint. Paint will likely come from Maco, since there isn't a Scheib around me offering the $99.95 spcial. It's eaither that, of I go for a textured peel coat system and spray it on.

I'm going to attack the frame while doing the shocks...wire wheel and grinder for awhile, followed by some POR15.

The truck sounds like it's new, and runs like a champ.

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1987 Mercedes-Benz 560sl
1986 Mercury Cougar
1988 Ford F-250 460
2016 Jeep Compass



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Great to see you back! Even better is that you still have the truck and are working with the body! 

You know how we love photos here, so at your leisure be sure to snap some before and after photos. My son is thinking of ordering some cab corners and rocker panels to fix his truck (Silverado) and we are both very interested in your thoughts on installing them.

Apparently with the cab corners its pretty easy, cut out the rust, weld or bond them on. From there you can either use some undercoating style paint (rock guard) or Bondo and finish them real nice. I myself am telling the kid since the truck is white, just use the white rock guard paint and call it a day.



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