Maybe PowerStroker already knew this, but Fords is now charging a core charge of $500 per converter if you buy them from the dealership!
While it's their prerogative, I just find it very odd because Emissions rules say that used converters can not be re-sold -- and outside of melting them down for the precious metals there is no real way to rebuild them. Then there is the fact you're buying the converters as "new".
So people quoting jobs to replace catalytic converters need to be aware that if they are buying them from Fords, they will have to turn in their old ones or pay a $500 core per unit!
This would really suck if you had your converters stolen, but most people with insurance wouldn't be paying anyway -- the insurance company would! This just means it will get spread out to all of us in higher premiums.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
I've got a 2017 Expedition here with the 3.5L V6 EcoBoost where the left drivers side catalytic converter is operating below efficiency... I fear the converter is clogged or at least coated -- but the front inlet and outlet turbo tubes are coated in oil sweat, and it would appear both turbos are leaking coolant at the bottom line too (not a whole lot but you can see a drip, wetness and the classic white stains from dried coolant!)
I ended up going with aftermarket Magnaflow converters because they were better priced and I have had good luck with them on past cars where they didn't have issues stripping all the hydrocarbons like the really cheap ones you see online.
I'm worried at least the drivers side is leaking oil internally into the exhaust and causing the converter to foul out -- in which case the new one would probably clog up in short order too! It sucks because the truck almost has 150,000 miles and since it's a rustbelt car the exhaust hardware at the muffler is pretty much shot, and getting the pipe to separate is pretty much not going to happen without pulling the entire Y... I guess I'll know more tomorrow when it's off and I can see up in the turbo and also at the honeycomb substrate -- but I have always said these twin turbo V6's were going to be money pits once they got over 100,000 miles. It's not just Ford's either as everyone is going turbo now days.
All I know is I'm not opening the new boxes for the converters until I know 100% these turbos aren't internally leaking oil into the exhaust. Because at that point, I can't guarantee the new ones won't plug up in short order. I should also mention that a turbo replacement does not look like any fun AT ALL!
You have to admit, these newer engines with twin turbos, dual overhead camshafts with four cam phasers and timing chains have a lot of potential to get VERY expensive up in the higher miles! It makes it hard for the mechanic because you could fix everything up with new converters and turbos and then not long after a cam phaser could crap the bed! And as bad as it is for the mechanic, the customer is just getting pummeled with major repairs! I get that new SUV's run north of $60k but damn...
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
I do a lot of cam phasers on those, and we do see a lot of cat failures too, usually the left one which is a lot easier than the right. We don't see a lot of inner turbo oil seal failures on those though. When that happens usually there is a huge amount of smoke out the tail pipe. That's more common on Explorers.
And yeah, it sucks to remove the turbos. Often bolts break off in the manifold so we prepare the customer for manifolds too when we get one.
Given your experience with these Ford truck/suv vehicles I went ahead and was able to remove just the left converter. You were also right that there does not appear to be any internal oil leaking and the impeller blade looks good too!
Right about the time I was feeling good, like I'd be finished tonight -- the customer told me he just want's both sides done anyway. So now I get to wrestle with the other side, jack up the transmission and remove the crossmember.
Another good thing was the converter showed signs of the honeycomb substrate and metal flake at the bend in the pipe. Getting ready to run my bore scope in it for a better look.
Coolant leak is small, but appears to be.a steel crush style gasket. Does not look fun either! Looks like.a super small leak, what do you think? Do they all do that? Wait until it starts leaking more?
Guess I can check on them gaskets tomorrow when I visit the dealership for the door check. In your experience, are the oil/coolant gaskets on the bottom of the turbos easier to do while the converters are off?
I really wanted to just throw this left converter on and call it a day... but I guess they want to keep the car for another few years so if it's going to save me headache doing them now while the converters are off, I don't want to -- but I'd look into it.
I'll post some photos, even though I know you've seen it all many times before. Sometimes it might help someone who hasn't -- and at least you can check out the new Mangnaflow kit.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
For the right converter, you will have to jack up the trans and remove the crossmember. Make sure to remove both oxygen sensors before trying to remove it otherwise they will snag in the heat shields and really piss you off.
The coolant lines that go into the turbos, if you have the old style (I think 2017 is) uses a snap to connect fitting with a wire clip style "jiffy tite" retention system that keeps a steel tube seated into the fitting's o-ring. The steel lines become rust pitted on the ends, and the fitting O-rings dry out. The fix is to remove the affected turbo, replace the 2 fittings on the turbo, the 2 fittings on the engine, and the 2 steel lines. You need to do all fittings and both lines because just disturbing them can cause ones that aren't leaking now to start leaking.
Assuming you do have the older style with the wire clip coolant line retention system here are some of the part numbers to do ONE turbo coolant line and fitting job (double quantities to do both turbos):
2X BL3Z-6A968-C fittings at turbo, 1X BL3Z-6A968-B and 1X BL3Z-6A968-JD fittings at engine. You will also need some things I don't have the part numbers for as follows:
- 2 coolant lines to each turbo (found in same catalog pic as the 6a968 fittings), 3x turbo to manifold torx head bolts, turbo to manifold gasket, gasket for turbo oil drain tube, nuts for turbo to cat (may need studs too if they come out or need to be cut), possibly a new manifold because they warp and may have broken off bolts, in which case a new manifold to head gasket and 9x studs and nuts, and 2 gallons coolant.
One thing to mention, where the line goes into the engine block side fitting, it won't actually quite snap in and be held in by the wire clip. Don't worry about that one, instead it is held in with a bolt that goes through a tab on the coolant line.
WOW! That sounds like a lot of work, especially considering how tightly packed everything is in there. So what you're saying is the catalytic converters must be removed to externally re-seal the unit. Got it, and it makes sense.
But let me ask you this -- at 150,000 miles wouldn't it just be a better idea to replace the entire turbo since you're saying it's a high probability that it will need to be removed anyway? This whole broken manifold bolt business you speak of is bringing back bad memories of another one that is still here and turned into an absolute project! (Big Blue)...
I think perhaps I will just replace the converters and leave the turbos alone at this time... do most of them start leaking at 150,000 or sooner? General rule of thumb (on the internet) is that these baby turbos are only expected to last 150,000 miles anyway! So it makes sense these two are showing small signs of coolant leakage. It would also explain why the front turbo intercooler and boost hoses have a sweat coat of oil on them, I see that a lot on all turbos with higher miles and usually you just let it ride until the turbo craps out. In my case I just wanted to be sure it wasn't belching oil internally causing the converter to plug -- and it's not. However I should mention all three coil packs have been replaced on the left driver side... two of them over a year ago and one of them last month -- so maybe them misfires over time caused the converter to become coated/plugged.
I appreciate all your insight, but based on what you said I don't think I'll even touch the turbos unless they are getting replaced -- if only because I am not willing to stand behind the re-seal on a turbo nearing the end of it's usual lifespan.
So here is the left side I have been talking about for other people who might be sitting at your desk doing research --
2017 Ford Expedition 3.5 Liter V6 Eco-Boost -- Trouble code P0430 - Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 2)
Here are the new converters... the box for the right side is HUGE.
I pulled off the left converter by using a torch to heat up the flange to turbo nuts, and then I cut the pipe right where the flange connects with a sawz-all.
Once it was off I had to cut the clamp and pull out the other part of the chunk. This is always the tricky part -- but I do have a welder if things got real bad.
You can see the platinum particles from the converter coming apart here
On my bore scope the back side of they honeycomb looked fine but the front side looked melted and plugged.
Inside the turbo did not look wet... just the normal amount of soot I'd expect at 150,000 miles.
But what has me worried is the small leak that is starting to form on both sides on the underside of the turbo
For now it just seems to be a drop of coolant... no real accumulation under the car.
However the front side of the turbo has the classic oil sweat on the turbo intercooler pressure tube and the suction tube.
That being the case, I think I'd recommend replacement of the entire turbo rather than just a re-seal because it's at that 150,000 mark and I just don't feel confident putting a 1 year warranty on a re-seal when it's close to the end of it's service life.
You can actually get the turbos out through the wheel wells without removing the cats, but certainly having the cats out of the way makes it easier. If it's just leaking coolant from the fittings, those just thread in and out, but the turbo has to come out to do them. Then there are the 2 fittings on the engine... One on the back of the cylinder head, which really sucks to get to on the Left side, and one on the block - which requires removal of the AC compressor on the right side. Those fittings have an o-ring inside that deforms and leaks over time, and the ends of the tubes become pitted where the o-rings seal against them. Also, the original exhaust manifolds tend to warp and cause the rear studs to break off. The new manifolds have a slightly different design that utilizes different threaded holes in the head to reduce warping. Those exhaust studs usually don't put up too much of a fight coming out with a stud puller... Usually.
There is a tool for disconnecting those jiffy-tite fittings, but I never use it. It's easier to use a long right angle pick to remove the metal clip, then the tubes slide right out with some wiggling.
As far as expected turbo life goes, it depends on how well the vehicle was maintained and whether it got regular oil changes or not. It would be hard to justify a turbo replacement if all that's wrong is a leaking coolant fitting. But updated exhaust manifolds would be good to do if you have the turbo off.
This connection you reffer to as "jiffy-tite" fittings are generally considered "quick disconnects" -- and yes, I too like to use an angle pick to remove the clip also. They are similar to transmission cooler line quick disconnects on the radiators. But these are not leaking on the turbo.
Instead it would appear that the two hole metal crush gasket is what's leaking... the one held on by two Torx bolts on the bottom side of the turbo, which I would assume is the return side for the oil and coolant.
My point is -- at 150,000 miles I can not re-seal this unit and give it a 1 year warranty... the front pipes are sweating oil and while it might not be blowing oil out the exhaust side -- there is some getting by on the boost side. You ever pull off an intercooler and have a bunch of oil inside it? Well, that is from worn turbo seals. To me reman turbos are in order, this way ALL the seals are replaced giving the customer the best value while preventing more serious problems when they just outright fail.
So we're doing both the turbos now too.
So I guess I'll update this thread once the new converters are installed... and I'll start a new thread on turbo replacements a little while after that.
That metal crush gasket only seals oil into and out of the turbo. Coolant doesn't flow through that. Having coolant pool up on it like that indicates a slowly leaking coolant quick disconnect fitting up higher on the turbo.
Also, seeing some oil in the intercooler tubes is normal, it's PCV carryover. But if you ever see oil coming into the exhaust, that would be a failed turbo.
At the dealership we offer a 2 year unlimited mile parts warranty, but only on parts we actually replace. We would not warranty an entire turbo if all we did was remove it to replace the coolant fittings and lines, and no one should expect us to. If we did turbo coolant lines and fittings, and 9 months later the turbo blew up and needed complete replacement, that would be a separate customer pay issue.
Yes, I realized that lower crush gasket was only for the oil supply/return last night when I ordered in two new turbos and complete lines...
I'm also under the assumption that I'll have to remove both side wheel wells to make this job a little easer digging the old turbos out of there.
That is one thing about a Ford truck -- it never fails, just endless work. No way would I ask a customer to pay me to remove and re-seal turbos at 150,000 without replacing them! In addition to these external seals, there are internal seals, bearings and other moving parts that are sure to fail shortly after and unlike you, I have to look my customer in the eyes when they come back (where you have a service advisor/middleman for that part of the job).
You make a good point on the PCV system, however these turbos still can fail on the internal seal on the outflow side and sweat/pump oil into the tubes and intercooler... I had a customer once with a failed turbo that put almost a quart of oil in his intercooler! Since you make a good point on the PCV, I should probably look into replacing that just to be thorough since we have all new turbos, lines and converters going on. After all it does have 150,000 miles on it likely.
Apparently these turbocharger bolts like to take the threads out when you remove them.
How do you deal with this bullshit every day?
It's like a never ending, unfolding FoMoCo gag reel!
When you suggested manifolds I thought that was an optional suggestion! While none of the exhaust manifold studs are broken or missing -- I'm sure they will all require heat.
I also see what you're talking about with regards to the "upgraded" manifolds with 11 bolts, rather than just the eight that the factory has. That is just CRAZY to me! That Ford would drill and tap 11 holes -- but only use eight!
I honestly thought you were just pulling my leg, as if to joke around about Big Blue and the fact that Ford is STILL having similar issues in the exhaust stud/manifolds as the Triton engines. But here I am!
I just want to vomit.
Look at the size of them bolt heads! And then they use such a skinny bolt? This is bad comedy. No wonder you wanna retire!
I guess it's true... A Ford engineer will walk past 12 virgins just to fuck a mechanic!
Thankfully, I priced in a set of factory style 8 bolt manifolds (just in-case)... they include new gaskets. They should be fine for five years you would think, right? With new hardware?
I've learned to always include a new manifold in the estimate for any turbo removal on these. If not for the reason you posted, then for the warpage issue. It's not an "optional" thing when I'm involved. On the upside, the studs that hold the manifold to the heads usually come out ok, unless they are already pre-broken off for your "convenience" due to warpage.
New old design manifolds should probably last as long as the first set, so you should be fine. I'd put anti-seize on all fasteners that touch that manifold.
And for your next trick, have fun with the coolant fittings on the back of the cylinder heads, and the one behind the A/C compressor. You'll notice the compressor bolts hit against the frame before you can remove it. You may be tempted to leave some of those fittings alone and reuse them, don't.
And for your next trick, have fun with the coolant fittings on the back of the cylinder heads, and the one behind the A/C compressor. You'll notice the compressor bolts hit against the frame before you can remove it. You may be tempted to leave some of those fittings alone and reuse them, don't.
Bon Appetit.
Sure... kick a guy when he's down. lol
Thanks for the tips, obviously I haven't even started on the passengers side so it's nice to know I have more punishment waiting for me there. My plans were to get the transmission lowered to get better access at the back side of the engine for that one coolant fitting (jiffy tite) and then also to help with access to some other things on that side like the plug for the upstream o2 sensor. I really wished they would have let me just install the one drivers side converter back when that was an option, but we're too deep now. I understand they want to keep it for quite a few more years -- they said four, so it would seem the "new" 8 bolt design should do the trick. I'll be honest, I've been half tempted to just Heli-Coil them two bolts that are stripped and then use the torch on the passengers side manifold where them bolts sink into and hopefully prevent the threads from pulling out. Had I known the bolts were so damn skinny I'd have tried that with the drivers side too, but that's just something you find out. The heads on the turbo attachment bolts are so big you'd never guess they had a skinny little bolt like that attached to them. Even after it pulled the threads they were still a pain to remove as they wanted to hang up in the bore - yet they still spun!
I really don't know how you do it... I'm not sure how many of these you have done, but there are a LOT of 3.5's out there and in many different Vans, SUV's and Trucks -- so I'd imagine it has been a lot. I'd figure at the dealership with new converters, turbos, tubes, fitting and manifolds it would probably crest the $10k mark? Wouldn't it? Is this something that people are having done on older vehicles? I understand that under warranty Fords would probably just replace a few of them Jiffy Tite fittings in hopes of getting it past the warranty period -- but that would REALLY suck for the mechanic! Or did most of them make it out of the warranty period?
Also, I got a kit that includes ALL the coolant fittings (jiffy tite) so I do plan on replacing them all.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
Most of these made it out of warranty before they started leaking, but it still sucks. On F150/Expeditions I don't even bat an eye at these, it's a one day job. Luckily I have so far been able to avoid doing this in a Transit van, because apparently those really suck balls.
There is another tip for the passenger's side... Expeditions have the A/C and coolant lines that run to the rear HVAC unit running through the RF wheel well area. They look like you can get the turbo past them, but you can't unless you shorten the body stud that holds their retention bracket to the body in the wheel well area, and use a pry bar to force them over what remains of that stud and pull them slightly outward to give enough clearance to remove/install the turbo. F150's don't have this problem since they don't have a rear HVAC system.
I don't think you'll have very much luck heli-coiling that manifold. That cast iron becomes so hard and brittle that you run a very high chance of breaking off a drill bit or tap in them. Honestly, once the turbo is out of the way it's nothing to remove the manifold anyway.
Welp, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a set of new exhaust manifolds last night... I started checking into the kit for the heli-coils and the price difference was such that the customer will get a much better job if I just spend a little extra time and get them replaced now before they start leaking and I have to pull all this new stuff off to replace them later. I also want to say thanks for all your insight into this job, as this is the first time I am dealing with these newer twin turbo eco-boost engines. I knew when these engines first come out they were going to be a punishing job to work with -- if only in terms of the sheer amount of parts involved. So, thanks!
I'll be working over on that passengers side the next few days while I wait for the new manifolds to arrive. I'll also be getting the old manifolds off so fingers crossed! I plan on heating each one of them nuts cherry red, and hopefully the studs all come out nice and easy too! The complexity and the "gotcha" factor of these twin turbo eco-boost engines is such that a lot of people are simply not going to understand -- but the fact is these big trucks and SUV's are pushing $80,000 new now days -- and people who need or want a big 4X4 will probably invest the money into them -- although I doubt there will be a lot of independent shops that will want to take on such a big job with all the risks and pitfalls involved. Most independent shops will stick with your brake, front end and such -- and typically try and price something like this out to the stratosphere to keep from having one tie up a bay.
It's frustrating to hear you got this job down to a single day, however I might add that you have help... from your parts department to your service advisor there are a lot of elements to this repair that others at your dealership are dealing with so that you can just focus on the repair side. It's only frustrating because I wished that I had the knowledge going into this job that you have probably had to lose your ass on a few times before you got it down to a day. Once the job is complete I'll start a new thread that will cover things like parts cost, availability and the grand total. What I am impressed with is the fact that the aftermarket has already started to pick up on these repairs and is offering kits that include everything all in one, whereas you would be buying each coolant "jiffy tite" fitting individually at the dealership -- and the same goes for manifolds, turbos, and catalytic converters. So at least there is hope for people running around with these engines in terms of keeping the costs down.
I been doing a lot of research on the parts side and I'm seeing performance turbo kits that put this little 3.5 twin turbo up in the 650HP range! That is just CRAZY! That being said, it now makes sense why Fords has an 8 hole manifold and also and 11 hole manifold... I suppose that on a Ford Raptor 3.5 V6 they would use the 11 hole exhaust manifolds and the bigger turbos. So it makes sense they would drill and tap 11 holes during manufacturing the heads so that it could be used in different configurations. We're not doing any performance upgrades on this Expedition since it's a daily driver -- but it's nice to know the performance spirit lives on! Whether the head gaskets and drivetrain would hold up to 650HP turbos is another matter, but I was impressed to see they do have performance kits out there.
All that said, I'm trying to stay positive as this job -- much like any other big Ford truck, just sort of unfolds on you. I cringe to think how hard these newer 3.5 liter twin turbo eco-boost engines will be to work with in another five years on vehicles daily driven in the rust belt. Already this one I'm working on is eight years old and I'm not going to lie, I've had some crusty bolts as a result. No doubt southern trucks and SUV's will be much easier to work with without the rust, it's just sort of par for the course when you live in a rust-belt state.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
You're welcome. Actually I don't mind giving tips to the independent guys on this kind of stuff. The more of these jobs you take away from the dealer, the fewer I have to do.
The new design manifolds still don't use all of the holes, they use 9 instead of 8. Unlike the Triton V10, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with how the manifold studs come out of the head even without any heat.
One day my ass... lol, I just got the brand new manifolds in the mail yesterday.
Nothing tragic has happened, and I'd like to think that your "one day" would end up being just more problems down the road because there is no way a dealership could perform the work that I'm doing using new parts and keep the repair cost within reason.
I think the next time around I'd just insist that everything be replaced right off the rip and order everything in at one time. Of course, we have to see how this one turns out. That being said, I look forward to completion soon.
You never did tell us what a full on job using new parts would run at the dealership, maybe you could ask your service advisor?
I know you're messing with me, but seriously -- aren't you a bit far away to be looking for side-work? lol
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
You know I will say, that is one thing you're lucky you don't have to deal with... customers and parts! It's even worse on the independent side because there are lots of options, usually with the dealership almost always being the most expensive.
I got these manifolds at a reasonable price, the trick is the hardware! They want an arm and a leg for them turbo attachment bolts! It's really quite insane! The manifolds just came in, but these parts have been waiting to go on for over a week
As you can see from the photo above, it's not just the turbos that are brand new, it's also all of the coolant and oil lines -- along with all brand new fittings at the turbos and the block for the coolant lines. All new gaskets and hardware on the oil lines.
Of course I did get a door check mech from the dealership -- which turned out to be the only part that was reasonable... however just for the parts above, the cost for FoMoCo parts alone would be more than I'm getting for the entire job. I see this a lot with big Ford trucks, it's even worse now days but at least the aftermarket is stepping up! Then again they put the 3.5 Eco Boost in WAY MORE vehicles than they did the V10 Triton.
I've done this in one day before, several times. It's a full 10 hour day, and I have a hoist, but I've done it. If studs break off in the heads though, then all bets are off, but usually they come out just fine with a 3/8 impact on these. Regarding cost, we use Alldata times for R&R manifolds and R&R the coolant tubes that connect to the back of the heads... (The other coolant tubes are considered overlapping with manifold labor). Our labor rate is around $200 per hour, so this job is in the thousands to be sure. But we would not have replaced the turbos themselves just for leaking coolant fittings, just the fittings and lines with new manifolds and gaskets. Also we reuse the turbo oil tubes unless they are damaged for some reason. So essentially our labor rate is higher, but we would replace fewer parts for this. Plus it helps that we do these enough to keep all of this stuff in stock (less turbochargers).
It doesn't look like your new turbos came with exhaust outlet adaptors or gaskets (Ford ones don't either). The outlets are p/n: BL3Z-9N496-A (x2), and the gaskets are BL3Z-9450-A (x2), and the studs are W716667-S900 (x4), and the nuts are W520514-S440 (x4)... We typically replace those adaptors rather than dick around with a torch trying to get the studs out of the old turbo and transfer them, but it can be done, you'll probably at least need the new adapter studs and gaskets though.
What exactly have you done in one day PowerStroker? Installed some parts that your service advisor sold and your parts guy pulled -- in a shop that your dealership owns?
I really don't think you have much say in how cars get fixed at your dealership, PowerStroker! However I noticed that when it came to YOUR OWN TRUCK, you replaced EVERYTHING and it took quite some time to do the job right when you had to do all the parts leg work.
Do you really think turbos last forever PowerStroker? And what kind of person uses rusted up lines with new fittings? Sounds to me like you are just setting up the customer for another expensive repair down the line when all the stuff you cut corners on goes bad -- and it will! The aftermarket isn't picking up on these parts because they last forever. What your dealership does with its customers is their business -- but I offered my customer the option of just replacing one catalytic converter from the start -- but they wanted to fix it right. I can't control the time it takes to get parts, anymore than you can control vehicles sitting in your overflow lot for six months to a year on backordered parts!
I think it's beyond laughable that you would replace a customers manifold, yet just throw the old turbo back on there! LOL!
As far as the adapters go, I don't have a problem using a solid cast iron adapter flange -- because unlike something as intricate as a turbocharger (with internal seals and shafts that spin at almost 10k rpm) -- these cast iron two hole flanges can last the lifetime of the truck. Not only that it's easy to heat and remove the studs with the turbos off the vehicle.
Won't be long now before my job here is done and I can post photos of this job completed with all the new parts installed... I'd welcome you to post some photos of your jobs you do in one day and it will be quite clear who is doing the better job.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
Our labor rate is around $200 per hour, so this job is in the thousands to be sure. But we would not have replaced the turbos themselves just for leaking coolant fittings, just the fittings and lines with new manifolds and gaskets. Also we reuse the turbo oil tubes unless they are damaged for some reason. So essentially our labor rate is higher, but we would replace fewer parts for this. Plus it helps that we do these enough to keep all of this stuff in stock (less turbochargers).
So you charge "in the thousands" for what amounts to two exhaust manifolds, eight o-ring-fittings and some gaskets?
Wow! My customer is getting brand new manifolds, gaskets, turbos AND both new catalytic converters with new 02 sensors! PLUS a new door strap on the drivers front!
Let me ask you, when doing cam phasers on these 3.5 engines, do you also set the base timing at +2 degrees on the crank sprocket?
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
Yes... 5 hours labor is a thousand bucks at the dealer, and this is more than a 5 hour job. Add in 2 new manifolds with hardware, 4 coolant lines, 8 fittings, and a bunch of gaskets, studs, and nuts, fluids etc, - all OE, and yeah, I'd imagine we'd probably be close to the $3k range or maybe over, though I don't have parts pricing. Plus we advise the customer up front that should any studs break off in the head, it will be an extra .5 to extract each one if any.
I just did a 3.5 phaser job after lunch today actually in 4.5 hours. I did not do anything to change base timing because using a degree wheel is not part of the process for that repair, and there isn't a multi slot crank sprocket anyway. I did do the scan tool misfire profile relearn procedure when I was done though.
I really don't think you have much say in how cars get fixed at your dealership, PowerStroker! However I noticed that when it came to YOUR OWN TRUCK, you replaced EVERYTHING and it took quite some time to do the job right when you had to do all the parts leg work.
I do my own diagnostics, look up my own labor times, and create my own list of parts for each job, that then gets forwarded to our parts department to quote their end of it. Then once the parts department finishes their end of the quote, it gets forwarded to the advisor to sell to the customer. I don't know who else would be deciding how cars get fixed than the practitioner of the trade. We have service managers, but they aren't qualified to fix a car, and wouldn't dare tell me how to. Even on warranty work I'm the one who has to verify coverage. If the repair exceeds a cost cap I have to do the prior approval process and get an authorization code before beginning the repair. I have to look up my own labor times and submit them to our warranty administrator for final booking. And I have to write a warranty story such that Ford's AI can understand it and authorize reimbursement to the dealership. And there are about 25 other technicians here, all doing the same for their customers. With the huge volume we do, the only way it works is if each technician manages his/her own repairs.
Look, I don't think you're doing this job wrong. I'm just saying my approach would have been a little different in that I wouldn't replace a turbo before it fails, but I understand your reasoning for doing so.
I just did a 3.5 phaser job after lunch today actually in 4.5 hours. I did not do anything to change base timing because using a degree wheel is not part of the process for that repair, and there isn't a multi slot crank sprocket anyway. I did do the scan tool misfire profile relearn procedure when I was done though.
That's good news because I noticed the other day there seems to be a fresh coat of silicone going around the timing cover... I just didn't want to have to worry about someone at the dealership having set it to +2 advance on the crank sprocket.
I might also add that:
1.) Turbos generally last 150,000 miles before needing service (with regular oil changes and under normal driving conditions)
2.) Turbos generally idle at some 10k RPM but can see RPM's increase to 200-250k under hard acceleration.
3.) A local dealership replaced a bad throttle body on this truck with a Dorman part -- and didn't even bother to replace the $70 connector plug they broke.
4.) The dealership might charge $200 per hour labor, but they are only paying you $50 of it.
All that said, this particular job sucks! And I'd be glad if the next one just took it to your dealership. If that makes you feel any better.
Oh, and by the way -- this customer also needs front pads and rotors... and prior to that I had to replace from wheel hub bearings.
In other words, if this vehicle was out of warranty (as it is) your dealership would most likely be selling them a new or used vehicle for $40k+ and then they would make you do this job using the least amount of parts so they could sell it on the used car lot... or they would stiff you on the repair and just send it to auction. That is the reality.
But sure... keep picking on me because I have had to wait on parts and find cost effective solutions.
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What is to give light must endure burning -- Viktor Frankl
